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Why the Green Party is shit

I'm the apologist? I'm not the one falling for the Lib/Con trick of trying to pass the blame for cuts onto local councils. Better to be thought a green apologist than being a tory apologist :p

I prefer to blame the lot of them. You don't oppose cuts by voting them through. They're willing executioners and if they had any backbone they'd do more than just whine about how terrible it all is.

By making out they have no other options you're an apologist for spineless councils. I prefer to criticise the government and the councils that are willingly carrying out their dirty work.
 

Also Poplar and Clay Cross.

Interestingly, the legislation that allowed governments to surcharge these councils in the past no longer exists so the risks they'd be taking as individuals would in fact be smaller than those that went before.

I don't think this thread is really the place for a lengthy council needs budget debate though.
 
At the same time, the Brighton Greens could have seized the moment and done this, and bucked the trend among their European counterparts and really prove the were the alternative progressive party the UK had been waiting for all along, silencing the naysayers in the different Trot organisations forever.

Alas, it was not to be.
 
the Brighton Greens could have seized the moment and done this
They couldn't, y'know. Because:

1. they're a minority administration that couldn't even get a modest increase to council tax past the Lab+Con majority on the council when they tried;
2. they've got no political game playing skills;
3. they're not firebrand socialists and if you ever thought they would be you deserve to be disappointed;
4. they're shit.

I don't think this thread is really the place for a lengthy council needs budget debate though.
Agree with this. I'll let you get back to chronicling and/or making up reasons the greens are shit now :)
 
They couldn't, y'know. Because:

1. they're a minority administration that couldn't even get a modest increase to council tax past the Lab+Con majority on the council when they tried;
2. they've got no political game playing skills;
3. they're not firebrand socialists and if you ever thought they would be you deserve to be disappointed;
4. they're shit.


Agree with this. I'll let you get back to chronicling and/or making up reasons the greens are shit now :)

What reasons have been made up?
 
What reasons have been made up?
That was a throwaway, hyperbolic comment, but the only reason I started posting on this thread is that I don't agree with this, which I've hopefully explain why:

they initially started proposing cuts budgets in Brighton a year ago and made some piss-poor excuses which could have come right out of Labour's playbook.

Also, I'm still not convinced that the Nazi's blood & soil bollocks being a bit environmental is really a reason the green party is shit :)
 
You haven't offered a political reason for them doing what they did they no - nor for your defence of them doing so. That they did is part of the point of the thread. A defence that this is what they were always going to do is meaningless as it only addressed what you imagine were other peoples expectations - rather than what actually happened. And no one, as far as i can see is going oh my hopes in the green firebrand socialists have been destroyed. And even if they were that doesn't alter the green party being shit.
 
I'm the apologist? I'm not the one falling for the Lib/Con trick of trying to pass the blame for cuts onto local councils. Better to be thought a green apologist than being a tory apologist :p

Anyway, more in the spirit of the thread: I don't think anyone has mentioned the Brighton 20mph speed limit fiasco yet. The Green council, whilst looking for where to save money, decide to spend an estimated £1.5 million on signage for a blanket 20mph speed limit on all council controlled roads in central Brighton, including a dual carriage way and main through roads. This despite it being unenforcable, the police publically confiming it won't be enforced and everyone totally ignoring it. Nice one Greens :rolleyes:

On a similar note, if anyone needs some points to raise re speed bumps and why they're a bad idea, a good starting point is the fact that they will usually more than double the fuel consumption and air pollution levels where they're installed, so can in no way be considered to be either environmentally friendly, or particularly good for childrens health other than in particularly bad accident black spots.

It might be different if they actually made speed bumps you could drive over at the speed limit, instead of those that need you to slow down to 10MPH in a 20MPh zone, resulting in people braking and accelerating etc. But at present, speed bumps lead to a significant increase in fuel consumption and air pollution (my old man wrote a published, monitored trial to demonstrate this, driving a monitored car over roads with speed bumps and no speed bumps at the 20 & 30MPH speed limits - it's on my to do list to get it uploaded to the web at some point).
 
Obvious excuse for a bump:

Posted by J Ed on the Laurie Penny thread:

Here's a bit of Crabapple-Penny-Harris style pornography as activism
A new documentary explores the lives of "Fuck for Forest," a group of Berlin-based neo-hippies determined to save the rainforests with a for-pay eco-porn site. It paints a sad picture of failed idealism -- but the group isn't taking the criticism lying down.

The activists have been living in the Berlin district of Friedrichshain for the past seven years. First, there were three of them: Tommy from Norway, Leona from Sweden and a German woman named Natty. Later, they were joined by Dan, from Norway, and Kaajal, a woman from India. They collect their clothing and food from dumpsters and think that drugs are a waste of time. "We're looking for people who enjoy sex and nakedness," they say. Their lives are disjointed, their apartment is a mess, their sex is a free-for-all -- and they call it freedom.

These are neo-hippies, and they resemble rare plants. They can't sing, but they do it anyway. They can't juggle numbers, but they are collecting money to help save the rainforests. They claim to have already raised over €400,000 ($530,000). Tommy, Leona and the others run a website for eco-porn where, for a fee, members can watch people having sex in the woods.

The group calls itself "Fuck For Forest" (FFF), and Polish director Michal Marczak naturally chose the same name for his recently released documentary, for which he accompanied them for a couple months with camera in hand. Marczak's film, which is showing at cinemas in Germany, is an unusual portrayal of Berlin -- and an absurd and comical masterpiece that goes beyond the fringe existence of a handful of nutcases, and the bleak world of pornography, to paint a portrait of a city whose threadbare, prudish Prussian atmosphere is only made bearable by the desires and confusion of the foreigners who end up here for one reason or another.

The perpetually bare-breasted Leona and the perpetually guitar-plucking Dan and their friends have a mission: They are fucking to save the world. For €12 a month, payable by credit card or bank transfer, users can feel like they are saving the rainforests and buying porn in good conscience. They have access to dozens of videos in which the members of FFF have sex with each other and with others.

The clips show sex between men and women, men and men, women and women, plus a good deal of group and public sex -- everything that millions of people gape at on Internet porn sites every day, much of it for free. But FFF's pay pornography differs from the standard fare on sites like YouPorn thanks to the group's signature shaky camera work, absurdly poor lighting and blatant poetic ambition. For instance, in the video "Jungle," which was shot in Mexico, Dan stands at the edge of a stream and plays a wooden flute while Natty kneels before him and fellates him. "We try our best to put our human errors to the test", says the narrator's voice in a clumsy attempt at rhyming.
http://www.spiegel.de/international...ctedFrom=www&referrrer=http://t.co/7g6Df7PG7i



Unfortunately...

But the saddest moment is when the inconsistencies in the sex commune's worldview -- its euphoria and its failures --- become apparent on their trip to South America. Marczak accompanies Dan and his friends to the Amazon basin, where they want to bring the indigenous peoples their money and their message of sex and ideals. But the locals don't want any money or messages from these white freaks, who look like gophers in a compost heap. They're only interested in the chainsaw that another German wants to sell them. You could say that German technology has won out over German idealism.

Somewhere in the border region between Peru and Brazil, Dan and Tommy bitterly complain about the huge TVs that the natives have in their huts. They are so enthralled by the beauty of a young girl that they are half-tempted to take her along with them. They give long-winded lectures to the inhabitants of a jungle village, explaining how they have collected money and why they want to purchase land for the indigenous people.

The reaction is devastating. "I don't need your money," snaps an Indio woman. The hippies are called liars and pedophiles, and for a few moments it looks as if the locals are going to chase them out of the village. Leona, Dan and Tommy briefly fight back their tears and trudge away from the crowd. "If you don't want our money," they say, "then we'll go."
 
Obvious excuse for a bump:

Posted by J Ed on the Laurie Penny thread:

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Glad to see you're getting the hang of this green stuff Spiney :D
 
The result of 'capture the councils and run them efficiently' mentality

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/...-after-unique-housing-scheme-gets-green-light


Officers from Brighton and Hove's Planning Committee who recommended approval said that the containers were an “imaginative and appropriate way to meet a very real need for affordable accommodation".

BHT's chief executive, Andy Winter, said: “Shipping containers are relatively cheap to provide and maintain. They are built to withstand ocean waves so they will last a long time.

“They’re airtight and the windows are double-glazed so heating bills are much lower than they would be in some traditional buildings.”

It's better than no housing at all obviously, but not committed to do what's really necessary.
 
Have any other MPs called for nationalisation of the railways recently?
http://www.carolinelucas.com/media....nds-to-save-a-billion-a-year,-urges-green-mp/

There was a group of Labour MPs calling for it a bit back - think Miliband might have even hinted that he'd consider it - it's a relatively easy vote winner given that it's supported across the board by over 70% of the population if the polling is to be believed.

And John McDonnell definitely has, repeatedly.

And they've actually got a chance of power. They won't do it though, but then again neither will the Greens since they have no chance of power - and if they did it would be in a coalition so their rail plans would go the way of Lib Dem promises to abolish university tuition fees.
 
The result of 'capture the councils and run them efficiently' mentality

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/...-after-unique-housing-scheme-gets-green-light




It's better than no housing at all obviously, but not committed to do what's really necessary.

I'm sure I read somewhere about a similar scheme somewhere in Holland. Only in that one these kinds of homes were to be a kind of punishment for antisocial types. Then again the Green Party see anyone working class as antisocial cos most of us don't eat organic and that so it kind of fits ;)
 
I'm sure I read somewhere about a similar scheme somewhere in Holland. Only in that one these kinds of homes were to be a kind of punishment for antisocial types. Then again the Green Party see anyone working class as antisocial cos most of us don't eat organic and that so it kind of fits ;)
To be fair that applies to a lot of lifestyle activists who purport to be of the anarchist persuasion, particularly those who live in housing co-ops and work in worker's co-ops (which may or may not be that cooperative in reality).
 
There are some pretty nifty projects that can be build out of shipping containers, but the homeless and working class deserve more than what's proposed here. It's like asking them to live in Portakabins.

I agree it's not terrible wouldn't mind one at all, but the promises of "real council house building" different from the other parties are still not real.
 
I agree it's not terrible wouldn't mind one at all, but the promises of "real council house building" different from the other parties are still not real.
I bet they will be building loads of "eco-homes" for their middle-class constituents as well, when they should be using that principle and building housing for the masses.
 
To be fair that applies to a lot of lifestyle activists who purport to be of the anarchist persuasion, particularly those who live in housing co-ops and live in worker's co-ops (which may or may not be that cooperative in reality).

We should probably have a why crusties are shit thread but I can't be arsed/they're too insignificant.
 
There are some pretty nifty projects that can be build out of shipping containers, but the homeless and working class deserve more than what's proposed here. It's like asking them to live in Portakabins.

At the place where I served my time we had big shipping containers as workshops (one craftsman and one mate to a container) and as our tea room. It was perfect for that because in addition to being well insulated and long enough to work on 3 and 5m lengths of pipe our tools were safe cos they were almost impossible to get into if we locked them properly which was pretty important cos we were in a seriously dodgy area.

I can also confirm that they're very warm - I lived about 120 miles from where I was working so in order to be able to spend my accommodation expenses on riotous living I bought a cheap caravan and stopped in that. One winter night me and my mate went out on the lash and couldn't get back to the caravan site so we stopped the night in the workshop. It was miles better than my caravan, much warmer and the floor was almost as comfortable as my caravan't shit hardboard beds.

Joking apart I reckon 2 of the big ones would make up enough space for a really nice one bed flat and I'd definitely live in one.

But in the current climate isn't job creation almost as important a reason to start council house building schemes as the housing shortage itself? I assume the manufacture of containers doesn't take place in Brighton and even if it did there's no way it's as labour intensive as building proper houses.
 
The result of 'capture the councils and run them efficiently' mentality
http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/...-after-unique-housing-scheme-gets-green-light
It's better than no housing at all obviously, but not committed to do what's really necessary.


The Andy Winter referred to in the link was a one time leading light of the Labour left in Brighton; he is not best loved by many of the workers at Brighton Housing Trust (BHT) especially the dozen who are about to loose their jobs. I don't know what his salary is but I would be interested to see it as a percentage of the £500,000 shortfall he's blaming for the redundancies.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
The Andy Winter referred to in the link was a one time leading light of the Labour left in Brighton; he is not best loved by many of the workers at Brighton Housing Trust (BHT) especially the dozen who are about to loose their jobs. I don't know what his salary is but I would be interested to see it as a percentage of the £500,000 shortfall he's blaming for the redundancies.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I assume this is the guy:

 
In my days in Lancaster (academic year 2006-7) I remember someone active in the university Labour Club (as in the Labour Party, not workingmen's club) who used to moan about then local Green Party leader John Whitelegg, saying he earned quite a lot of money and had a expensive house and car. At the time I was a staunch support of the Green Party (tempted to actually join them, and Green Left along with them) and saw such talk as a way to just score cheap points against them (the Labour acquaintance was very much of the "reclaim the Labour Party" sort).

Now I see it as evidence that they are out of touch with the working classes of whatever area they are standing in.
 
In my days in Lancaster (academic year 2006-7) I remember someone active in the university Labour Club (as in the Labour Party, not workingmen's club) who used to moan about then local Green Party leader John Whitelegg, saying he earned quite a lot of money and had a expensive house and car. At the time I was a staunch support of the Green Party (tempted to actually join them, and Green Left along with them) and saw such talk as a way to just score cheap points against them (the Labour acquaintance was very much of the "reclaim the Labour Party" sort).

Now I see it as evidence that they are out of touch with the working classes of whatever area they are standing in.
So completely unlike the leading lights of the Labour Party then?

Yes I know this is meant to be a why the Greens are shit thread, but glass houses and all that.
 
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