Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You can't even put an argument together, not one that holds water
Why the f-ck did anyone ask Klaus Schwab the time anyway
- Thread starter gosub
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Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Tbh the problem is more that gatekeepers have proliferated - charismatic or prolific chancers who recruit followings by providing endless content "interpreting" events through prisms which bounce off into weird little corners where basic common understandings are "questioned" until they've lost all meaning. People like StakerOne get sucked into eg. crypto and Russell Brand vids and spend huge amounts of time on them thinking they're part of something important being uncovered, rather than having their time wasted or being conned. See also Qanon, incel culture etc etc - with part of the methodology being to dismiss other viewpoints.
Which is why "I did my own research" is a meme highlighting tin foil hat ignorance. They are reading, but it's all within a particular ecosystem of Acceptable Trusted Content in which, for example, you see people banging on about communism = evil while not having the faintest idea about what it entails, the broad ideology's nuances and internal debates/differences, or what communists actually think, let alone considering why people might call themselves such.
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BigMoaner
We will all go together
What I meant by Gatekeepers was more, and I don't like the word particular, "experts".
Say if I want to learn about philosophy, I would see someone such as Betrand Russel - someone who has literally assessed and interpreted the history of Western thought. His view has a weight to it. Or someone who has spent their whole life studying, say, flowers - they write an article on flowers and it has some weight. A book they have written on flowers has some sort of value to it, by virtue of the author. Now you can get into all sorts of postmodern ideas about the structure of power and knowledge, etc, and that how Ted can defy them all and be an oracle of rhis age with stuff like "they don't want kids to be entrepenours" and other such gems, but i'm not convinced.
Doesn't have to be even folk I agree with politcally - Max Hastings knew his onions about war, I would read and find value there. Chesterton knew a huge amount about philosophy, love his work, though deeply conservative.
This is what I mean by gate keepers. A respect for truth. For people who know what they fuck they are talkng about.
Truth now has to put up with this business model, only 10 seconds:
Say if I want to learn about philosophy, I would see someone such as Betrand Russel - someone who has literally assessed and interpreted the history of Western thought. His view has a weight to it. Or someone who has spent their whole life studying, say, flowers - they write an article on flowers and it has some weight. A book they have written on flowers has some sort of value to it, by virtue of the author. Now you can get into all sorts of postmodern ideas about the structure of power and knowledge, etc, and that how Ted can defy them all and be an oracle of rhis age with stuff like "they don't want kids to be entrepenours" and other such gems, but i'm not convinced.
Doesn't have to be even folk I agree with politcally - Max Hastings knew his onions about war, I would read and find value there. Chesterton knew a huge amount about philosophy, love his work, though deeply conservative.
This is what I mean by gate keepers. A respect for truth. For people who know what they fuck they are talkng about.
Truth now has to put up with this business model, only 10 seconds:
BigMoaner
We will all go together
this with bells on.
It's like when Jordan Peterson, king of the grifters, turned up at a debate against Zizek, and had read in preperation The Communist Manifesto. A man who has ranted and raved and emoted his whole career about "marxism", preparing for a debate by reading a pamphlet - he knows almost nothing about Marx but has done so much to destroy his name amongst young men, and been very succuesful at it. Like Ted's posts, JP is just a series of memes repeated over and over.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Mm I get what you mean, "gatekeeping" is possibly not quite the right word though inasmuch as while historically mass media's platforming of The Intellectual View served to further their own position as gatekeepers the intellectuals themselves were often suggesting or inviting broader thought.
I think the (partial - there's still the odd David Graeber etc) demise of the public intellectual has good and bad aspects in and of itself tbh, their prominence sometimes meant an acquiescence to authority which hindered radical thinking and, as an aside, may have helped foster the rise of the technocrat. As is so often the case, there probably is a happier median in which, as a society, we learn to better weight the relative merits of wannabe influencers while never taking them entirely as read. The trouble is society both pre and post-internet has, in different ways, militated against doing so.
BigMoaner
We will all go together
i agree - if I want to learn about post modernism, say, it pays for me to spend a good few months reading some of teh basic texts, to listen to lectures on said writers, etc. Then I might have a fairly good take on post modernism. Maybe then having a fairly good grounding to go into a debate about it.
I could also, whilst performing that task, occasionally dip into the latest jordan peterson rant against post modernism, and see it for what it is, a likely uninformed rant that might be thought provoking in some kind of way just in and of itself.
But identifying this distinction is often lost today in the sphere of human communication and media. So you have huge amounts of hubris being expressed, eh, hugely. So you will have a podcast host who sees post modernism through the prism of a Jordan Peterson rant. His ignorance is fine in and of itself, we are all ignorant in many things - fine, apart from that his podcast is viewed by millions and generating millions in cash each month.
Is it any worse than pre-internet? where we would have to wait for, in this example, a post modernist to publish a book. The masses would read and interpret said book and have no real platform to discuss it - it was a solitary exercise, in the main. It probably is no worse, probably even better today that we have all these means available in intellectual life. But I do think the current business models of media consumption and how they relate to issues in the culture war can help explain the types and nature of extremism we see today. I have actually even witnessed it amongst friends, one disappearing into the manosphere, the other into anti vax - the latter lost and never returned.
Shrugs shoulders, that's teh world now.
I could also, whilst performing that task, occasionally dip into the latest jordan peterson rant against post modernism, and see it for what it is, a likely uninformed rant that might be thought provoking in some kind of way just in and of itself.
But identifying this distinction is often lost today in the sphere of human communication and media. So you have huge amounts of hubris being expressed, eh, hugely. So you will have a podcast host who sees post modernism through the prism of a Jordan Peterson rant. His ignorance is fine in and of itself, we are all ignorant in many things - fine, apart from that his podcast is viewed by millions and generating millions in cash each month.
Is it any worse than pre-internet? where we would have to wait for, in this example, a post modernist to publish a book. The masses would read and interpret said book and have no real platform to discuss it - it was a solitary exercise, in the main. It probably is no worse, probably even better today that we have all these means available in intellectual life. But I do think the current business models of media consumption and how they relate to issues in the culture war can help explain the types and nature of extremism we see today. I have actually even witnessed it amongst friends, one disappearing into the manosphere, the other into anti vax - the latter lost and never returned.
Shrugs shoulders, that's teh world now.
Keep on scrolling back...
I'm not that fussed on safe spaces. I don't agree with them, but it's just something I shrug my shoulders at.
What I do have a problem with is 'companies that brand anyone, including their own customers of racism, for merely raising concerns.
It's the intolerance of differing views that bothers me.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
There may not be a worse weasel words phrase in the English language.
BigMoaner
We will all go together
Just asking questions
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Yeah this is an oncoming problem as well, as the people lapping up this expanded morass of ill-considered, misleading and self-serving output the most are disaffected young men, who have the motivation and tools to listen to confident-sounding grifters and loons who give them easy answers, but not to critique them.
Mm the issue is, essentially, abundance where once there was want. Rather than having a restricted amount of opinion directly mediated by State and Capital, with a side order of hard to find alternative views, now the trouble is wading through the churn of nonsense to try and identify a bit of sense. Which requires having a handle on things which a lot of people, for one reason or another, don't possess or lose in the process of being corralled into a particular ecosystem of views.
Pick an ideology. Any ideology.
Build build, spread the word.
Oh dear, you're not, winning, you've just been censored, you have no presence on Facebook, twitter or YouTube.
Oh dear, you've just had your bank accounts shut down.
Oh dear, that company that provides a vital service has just pulled the plug.
Oh dear, you've been infiltrated and now you're going to be liead about, with everything in tatters.
Oh dear You have no right of reply.
Oh dear PayPal won't touch you.
Oh dear, someone's run off with the money.
Oh dear, someone else has abused your trust.
Crypto stops all that. And you're telling me it's a con?
Fuck off. You know fuck all about fucking anything. You know absolutely fuck all.
Now. I build. And whatever I build, you can't censor, shut down or confiscate. No one can.
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stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Having a normal one I see.
A
For someone who doesn't care, you seem remarkably hung up on this apparent intolerance of different views. What were these views BTW? You can quote them I'm sure, since they've it's exercised you so?
And the intolerance is what, just telling people not to shop here.
Again, is that all you've got? A shop has told people it thinks are racist not to shop there. Is this the fucking distopia you're worried about. Get off the internet and find some real problems to get worked up about.
For someone who doesn't care, you seem remarkably hung up on this apparent intolerance of different views. What were these views BTW? You can quote them I'm sure, since they've it's exercised you so?
And the intolerance is what, just telling people not to shop here.
Again, is that all you've got? A shop has told people it thinks are racist not to shop there. Is this the fucking distopia you're worried about. Get off the internet and find some real problems to get worked up about.
fucthest8
Cool people die horrible, preventable deaths.
I've just been idly scrolling through this thread wondering how the fuck people work up the energy for this tedious shite and to get to this as the most recent thing posted just killed, laughed so much I had a coughing fit (I've not been well, so pretty much any laughing does that right now, but still).
Shut up you tit.
Loving the complete lack of emotion Mr Logic BTW. Bin your youtube feed and start agai. Will do you some good.
Perhaps I'm not trying to win certain arguments.
Perhaps I don't even consider my views on certain things, such as whether a company has a safe-place of not, as important?
This thread is about Klaus Schwab. You know that WEF bloke who dresses up like a fucking Bond Villian has too many powerful people on his side.
To me, it's all about the centralisation v decentralisation of power.
And I find it breathing taking that no matter how much I bang on about that, certain people try to create a tidy siding into race and identity politics.
Many agree with each other that corporates get more powerful. You can see that trend.
I wonder how many are concerned about state entities and quangos accumaliting and pooling power? A number of people seem to dismiss as consipiracy theory.
Other's claim they hate the WEF, yet strangly are quick to make enemies out of differences that shouldn't matter.
Since this thread, is practically about the WEF, what can be done to fight them?
Because from where I'm sitting, setting up alternative ecomomies, with alternative structures, seems to be at least something!!!
BigMoaner
We will all go together
JimW
支那暗杀团
Crypto is not an alternative economy to what you affect to despise as it operates within/by the same logic and set of social relations, it's just a different technical means to the same ends. You can see from all your posts that you've basically got completely the wrong end of the stick from the off and until you go back and find out why you're going nowhere.
All I want to know is whether people like to see more centralisation of power or not. That's all the matters.
If you want to see the WEF rule top down with representives on each local authority giving us shite we didn't vote for, you can fuck right off, I couldn't give a fuck what you think about anything else.
Because, it's the ONLY thing that matters right now.
It can work with any logic. It's programmable.
JimW
支那暗杀团
You'll never see that, it's not the role and function of the WEF in the capitalist world order. Again, you're not even asking the right questions so you won't get the right answers.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I don't care what many people are doing on this thread. I don't care if you're trying or not trying to win arguments. I simply observed you can't construct arguments. And you can't. Reread your post, it ought to make you redden with shame.
Pickman's said I should read some books. I've been down to the local library and I've been told such books are problematic.
No and here's a thing, no one on here wants that either. Couldn't give a fuck about sainsburries tweetings. Not me that brought it up though. So, as I say. Talk about something real, not this anti wokey daily mail esk bullshit.
Crypto is not an answer to social relations in a capitlist system. Tech can be liberating and yes, we do in many ways have more access to the means of diseminating ideas. But the same structures exist and are controlled by capital. JimW has put it better.
BigMoaner
We will all go together
Are you high?
All you seem to do is pump out so many proclamations that you put Goebels to shame.
And you asked me to run along and read some books rather than annoy the great amount of intellect and knowledge on this messageboard, so you're hardly a natural at debating.
BigMoaner
We will all go together
what power does the WEF, an economic forum that discusses "world issues" and other neo liberal talking points, have over each and every world government? Please give specifics. What strings do they pull, and how do they pull them. Again exact specifics please? Is Sunak running each of his decisions by them, for example? Does the house of lords and the commons run everything by them? Does each major cooperation do the same? How does it work Ted?
It's that shadowy cabal energy again unless you can be very specific, with well established evidence.
It's that shadowy cabal energy again unless you can be very specific, with well established evidence.
It is the answer to online social relations if it's immutable and censorship resistant.
Corruption works by people who have a mutual interest, coming together and pooling their powers to get results that are mutually beneficial.
No. You?
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