D'oh! Forgot that.
But one might infer previous to the previous from the suspended sentence... not just a fine...
Why do some feminists hate transgender people?
- Thread starter D'wards
- Start date
D'oh! Forgot that.
But one might infer previous to the previous from the suspended sentence... not just a fine...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I don't want to overstate the case here - she wasn't sent to jail just for nicking a few cosmetics and a phone. These were the tipping point at the end of a process. But my question remains, and it's a general one not just for this case: does throwing her in jail do her or society any good? Was she a danger to the rest of us who needed to be locked up? Does locking her up for a bit make her less of a problem when she gets out? My answer to all these points is an emphatic 'no', and I know that many people working in prisons have the same answer, yet nothing is done, the wheels continue to turn.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Dear god, another transgender woman found dead in a male prison.
Transgender inmate found dead in Woodhill prison cell - BBC News
Transgender inmate found dead in Woodhill prison cell - BBC News
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Earlier in the thread, there was a link to some awful stats regarding trans suicides in prison.
It could be a coincidence that there have been a couple of suicides so soon after the issue became a media concern.
Or, it could be that, as per the stats in the earlier link, this is normal, these are regular occurrences. It's just that the media is now paying each death attention.
It could be a coincidence that there have been a couple of suicides so soon after the issue became a media concern.
Or, it could be that, as per the stats in the earlier link, this is normal, these are regular occurrences. It's just that the media is now paying each death attention.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yes. With the previous case I suggested there was additional media interest because someone that was very closed to the deceased was prepared to speak to the media. They prefer it when they can 'add colour' to a story that way. But clearly there is also an interest in covering these deaths now, even when there is only a dry press release from the prison service to go on.
Here's a mind-blowing rights contradiction for the weekend:
A transgender woman, convicted of carrying out a rape when she was a man, has been remanded to a male prison.
Nope. There's no right answer to that.
A transgender woman, convicted of carrying out a rape when she was a man, has been remanded to a male prison.
Nope. There's no right answer to that.
Athos
Well-Known Member
What is the contradiction of rights? Presumably one is her right to have her gender recognised? What is the other that's in conflict with that?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Presumably the right(s) of other women prisoners not to be incarcerated with a convicted rapist?
In fine point of legal theory it may be arguable whether the woman he raped has a "right" to see that man suffer the consequences. Even if that man is now living as a woman.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Definitely.
That's a third.
(As it happens in this case the person seems to have undergone no medical or surgical procedures.)
Athos
Well-Known Member
Do prisoners have the right to choose their fellow inmates?
They most definitely have the right to life (if not a private life) and the right not to be assaulted or put in fear.
Athos
Well-Known Member
If he no longer exists, no. And, in any event, the punishement is imprisonment itself, which still applies. And that's overlooking the dodgy assumption that vistins have a right to see perpetrators suffer.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I doubt it but, presumably, the prison service owes some duty of care to those that it incarcerates.
Athos
Well-Known Member
They have a right to life, yes, and a right not to be assaulted. Those rights can be upheld without the need to imprison this woman alongside men. I'm not convinved they have a right not to be in fear. Many inmates fear fellow inmates.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Yes, they have rights and she has rights. The question is whether they can be accommodated. I suspect taht could be done better than by putting her in a male prison.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
True, but increased movement towards degendering might allow the state more flexibility in decisions about where to imprison trans-prisioners?
Athos
Well-Known Member
I'm not really interested in allowing the state more flexibility in its incarceration decisions!
But, yes, you're right. Degendering in prisons (and elsewhere) would be a good thing. Ironically, it's arguable that trans people play a part in preventing that by consciously reinforcing gender stereotypes (albeit they are, at the same time, victims of them).
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Me neither; I was merely making the point that they may be unforeseen consequences, that play into the hands of reactionary state agencies, from successful pressure to degender.
Which is where I came in: there is probably no good answer to this one.
Thora
Differently Ethical
The obvious answer is not putting men, especially rapists, in female prisons.
Athos
Well-Known Member
You don't need to put her in a male prison to avoid that.
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frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
But if this person raped someone and still has that part of the anatomy? The only thing i can think of is a special segregated wing. People (male and female) have the right not to get dressed etc and be locked up with a convicted rapist and if there's the risk of getting pregnant that also makes things a bit more complex. I just think prisons are fucking horrible places for the majority of inmates that havent done things like that.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Seems the most sensible compromise to me.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
Presumably men who rape men go to male prisons - I believe they segregate sex offenders to some extent... but perhaps not on remand / in all prisons. Essentially I'm saying that the prison system already has to deal with prisoners who are put in orison for raping people of their own gender. Surely this woman can be dealt with in the same way.
Btw - it's interesting that no one seems too concerned about ethnic minorities who are put inside alongside people guilty of racially motivated GBH etc. Clearly rape is more terrible a crime for the person attacked, than assauly would generally be, but the risk would be of GBH becoming manslaughter/murder... and being killed is as bad as it gets.
Btw - it's interesting that no one seems too concerned about ethnic minorities who are put inside alongside people guilty of racially motivated GBH etc. Clearly rape is more terrible a crime for the person attacked, than assauly would generally be, but the risk would be of GBH becoming manslaughter/murder... and being killed is as bad as it gets.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Exactly. We're looking at a system of forced incarceration and trying to work out an equitable way to do it. There isn't one. There's no reason why there should be. In fact, it would be surprising if there were.
We need to be asking far more basic questions, imo. Why do we have prisons? What do we hope to achieve through forced incarceration? For whose benefit, for whose protection, is this being done? The whole penal system appears to me to be sleepwalking through the entire process most of the time.
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