Why do some feminists hate transgender people?

[bi0boy]

Why the facepalm? Prisons, as far as I know, have fairly primitive - and communal - shower facilities. It's why they do so badly on tripadvisor.

The choice is not between housing her in a male prison and forcing her genitals onto other women is it?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The choice is not between housing her in a male prison and forcing her genitals onto other women is it?

tbh the main thing I take from any case like this one is that it is a pretty barren society that locks people with problems up for short stretches because, well, basically they can't think of or be bothered to find something that might actually help them.

So she'll be kept safe, probably, now that there's been this media attention, which means that she'll have a thoroughly miserable, empty, isolated couple of months followed by what? Who knows, and in the case of the judiciary, who cares? They know that prison is about the least rehabilitative thing they could possibly do, yet keep on doing it again and again.

What's that definition of madness again?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

The choice is not between housing her in a male prison and forcing her genitals onto other women is it?

One would hope not. But it's not obvious that women's prisons have the sort of segregration facilities that would be needed if it was appropriate for one particular inmate to carry out all her ablutions in private. Why are you so confident that no women in the same prison as Hudson would ever see her genitals?

 

[emanymton]

I was wondering whether Hudson should have had her own thread. On the other hand, perhaps it's much more relevant and important when talking about "women's only spaces" and "safe spaces" and all the rest of it, to think about places where women are compulsorily locked up, rather than niche conferences and web forums and the like.

It's definitely relevant to a discussion about women's safety that Hudson is not only violent but has a functioning cock, in a way that it wouldn't be if we were arguing the toss over campus politics.

I think your right, this gets to the real heart of the matter: how do we define women. There has been a suggestion that if someone identifies as a women then they should be considered a women. But I think everyone agrees that when it comes to the question of imprisonment something more is needed. So the question is at what point does someone transition, where should the line be drawn between being a man and being a women? I'm of the opinion that drawings lines is not very helpful and each case a should be considered individualy. And I think we need to accept that there will be some cases that don't have an obvious solution, and all that can be done us to make the descion which seems to have the least chance of causing harm, and sometimes that decision will be wrong. This is an unfortunate consequence of retaining a commitment to a 2 gender ideology, when real people are more complex.

 

[Thora]

No. But it does make a difference that she boasts of maintaining an erection. (I am taking it seriously when people post their concerns about that.) Still doesn't mean she wouldn't be in a whole heap of shit in a male prison.

I'm not sure what difference maintaining an erection makes - does it make her less woman? Would erections be one of your criteria?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm not sure what difference maintaining an erection makes - does it make her less woman? Would erections be one of your criteria?

I am listening to concerns raised, including those raised by you, that's all.

 

[Thora]

I am listening to concerns raised, including those raised by you, that's all.

OK, and what does that mean Are you just informing me that you are reading posts?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

OK, and what does that mean Are you just informing me that you are reading posts?

I'm saying that I don't have all the answers to everything. I've already said as much about the fact that when people don't fit into neat premade boxes, it is hard to have hard-and-fast rules.

Am I not allowed to say that I understand concerns? You asked if her being a sex worker changed things. I said no, and tried to explain what 'understand concerns' meant. I'm not sure why you're trying to polarise this.

 

[elbows]

One would hope not. But it's not obvious that women's prisons have the sort of segregration facilities that would be needed if it was appropriate for one particular inmate to carry out all her ablutions in private. Why are you so confident that no women in the same prison as Hudson would ever see her genitals?

There are some guidelines on that in the official guidance for prisons in relation to gender issues. For example If there is no other way to segregate showering, they can use scheduling. i.e. simply have her use a designated shower facility at a specific time when nobody else is allowed to use it.

 

[killer b]

I'm not sure why you're trying to polarise this.

incredible.

 

[likesfish]

. This is an unfortunate consequence of retaining a commitment to a 2 gender ideology, when real people are more complex.

except they are not, not really trans exist but are a tiny minority if they weren't these problems would have been solved.

 

[umop apisdn]

a fact the judiciary doubtless took into account when considering sentencing.

That's such a lazy answer.

 

[umop apisdn]

i was being sarcastic wheen i suggested they took umop apisdn's views into account.

Tell me ... what makes your views more important than mine?

 

[Pickman's model]

OK, and what does that mean Are you just informing me that you are reading posts?

tbh not sure lbj even doing that

 

[Pickman's model]

Tell me ... what makes your views more important than mine?

pls point to where i say that

 

[bluescreen]

Who tagged this thread with lulz? I can't remember any. It's teetered in the direction of urban entropy a couple of times but only briefly. There has been a Poe, so perhaps that counts.

 

[smokedout]

I agree that this is not simple. Far from it. But I'm reluctant to judge Tara Hudson the person for that. If her website is to be believed, she revels in her ambiguity - and why not? Still doesn't mean she wouldn't be fucked in a men's prison.

If her website is to be believed

The sex industry is designed to pander to the sexual fantasies of men. Many men fetishise what they see as the ambiguity of trans gender sexuality, so transgender sex workers, if they want to make any money, play up to that. What do you expect her website to say, floppy cock, fake tits, and most punters make me want to puke?

How she actually plays up to it is probably by going off dangerously script with her hormones and taking huge doses of viagra. For money. That this is being used against her is pretty repellant.

 

[smokedout]

I think I just understood intersectionality, its when being a women intersects with being trans and also intersects with her being a sex worker who intersects with being a convicted criminal which leads to right on people on a right on message boards having a discussion about whether the alleged tumescence of her genitals makes her a potential rapist or not.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think I just understood intersectionality, its when being a women intersects with being trans and intersects with being a sex worker leading to right on people on a right on message board having a discussion about whether the alleged tumescence of her genitals makes her a potential rapist or not.

Yep. Fair points. You're right.

 

[umop apisdn]

pls point to where i say that

Here:

i was being sarcastic wheen i suggested they took umop apisdn's views into account.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If her previous convictions are anything to go by, anyone is at risk from Tara Hudson.

At risk of physical violence - it's a possibility.
At risk of sexual violence - it's a much smaller possibility.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Huge amount of previous, magistrates don't imprison lightly.

Bag of arse. Some do, some don't.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nonsensical, whether you sing it or type it.

Magistrate are you, Maurice?

 

[bluescreen]

At risk of physical violence - it's a possibility.
At risk of sexual violence - it's a much smaller possibility.

What do we know? If she's not going to get kalied she's not likely to be violent, is she? As for the rest, it's mere conjecture.

 

[umop apisdn]

At risk of physical violence - it's a possibility.
At risk of sexual violence - it's a much smaller possibility.

Why are you more concerned about the aggressor than her victims?

 

[bluescreen]

Isn't it wrong to be discussing a particular individual as an exemplar, both because of the lack of respect for the individual and because of the nonsense that any individual could be representative?

 

[Humberto]

Why are you more concerned about the aggressor than her victims?

Because she shouldn't be thrown to the wolves because of her circumstances.

 

[umop apisdn]

Because she shouldn't be thrown to the wolves because of her circumstances.

Thrown to the wolves? Come on.

She threw herself onto the wolves by assaulting people. Because she can't handle her drink.

 

[butchersapron]

Thrown to the wolves? Come on.

She threw herself onto the wolves by assaulting people. Because she can't handle her drink.

It's been a terrible - near shameful - last few pages. You've got nothing to say on this thread. Don't make it worse.

 

[Humberto]

I think there has to be some sensitivity towards someone who lives and dresses as a woman. To put them into a men's prison. Really? That would be reckless.