Why anarchism as a method of action doesn't work.

[ViolentPanda]

What is the 'movement as a whole'?

That's the vexed question, isn't it? RMP3 obviously sees a monolithic "movement" ripe to be guided. Me, personally I see a lot of disparate threads of protest that occasionally coalesce into a series of movements behind particular causes or ideals.

If it isn't a movement towards freedom, it's nothing. And coercion of comrades is anathema to that freedom.

Surely, if comrades don't do what they're told, then they're not comrades any more, and can be given a show trial and summary execution?

This 'democratic will of the majority' is nothing more than mob rule when it is used to trample others' freedoms. My point was that there's room for a diversity of tactics. But, sadly, some within 'the left' don't like that, because they prefer to control the whole show.

And why wouldn't they? "Controlling the whole show is the only way they're ever going to propagate their ideas on a large scale, 'cos history shows us that they've signally failed to "sell" those ideas to more than a fraction of politically-motivated activists.

I can deny it. Anarchists place more emphasis on freedom; the SWP places more emphasis in the working class doing what it's told.

And being grateful to those who condescend to tell them what to do, obviously.

 

[Athos]

Deleted double post.

 

[Athos]

You havn't though.

Eh?

And, I haven't what?

By the way, can you explain how you know the people you referred to are anarchists, please?

 

[TremulousTetra]

I do hope Athos digs up that particular thread, even if only to expose how you're misrepresenting him.

noneed, he has already reiterated;

What is the 'movement as a whole'? If it isn't a movement towards freedom, it's nothing. And coercion of comrades is anathema to that freedom. This 'democratic will of the majority' is nothing more than mob rule when it is used to trample others' freedoms. My point was that there's room for a diversity of tactics.

so do you agree?

 

[JimW]

3 people have been arrested for trespass for fucks sake - they've not been executed by firing squad. That's it, trespass - 'profligate waste of fine revolutionary comrades' indeed

We hardly knew 'em We've lowered the black flag here at the Peng Pai Memorial Commune to half staff.

 

[ViolentPanda]

noneed, he has already reiterated;

No, he didn't reiterate, he gave an answer to what you said that he'd stated. Nowhere near the same thing.

so do you agree?

Why not read what I wrote in reply to Athos' point?

 

[ViolentPanda]

We hardly knew 'em We've lowered the black flag here at the Peng Pai Memorial Commune to half staff.

Same here at the embassy for the People's Republic of Panda. The skull and crossbones is at half-mast.

 

[TremulousTetra]

No, he didn't reiterate, he gave an answer to what you saidthat he'd stated. Nowhere near the same thing.

he reiterated his position in the Seattle thread

Why not read what I wrote in reply to Athos' point?

because you are not talking about anarchism or Athos's position, you're obsessed with the SWP as usual.

So;

This 'democratic will of the majority' is nothing more than mob rule​

 

[Athos]

So;

This 'democratic will of the majority' is nothing more than mob rule

Don't you think there's something disingenuous about quoting half a sentence?

 

[ViolentPanda]

because you are not talking about anarchism or Athos's position, you're obsessed with the SWP as usual.

Well, actually, as I'm sure Athos would attest, I was "talking about anarchism and Athos' position". I was merely doing so through the lens of an ideology that you favour.

So;

This 'democratic will of the majority' is nothing more than mob rule​

You're a rancidly dishonest little fuck, aren't you, selectively editing Athos' post so that what you've quoted is decontextualised from what he actually wrote.

 

[eoin_k]

But which is worse a quick death at the hands of a firing squad under suspision of an alleged criminal tresspass, or a slow agonising death drowining in a sea of unsent petitions, newspaper sales targets and memos from central office demanding yet another recruitment drive to build the revolutionary party.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't you think there's something disingenuous about quoting half a sentence?

Disingenuous? More like dishonest and absolutely of a par with what he always does.

 

[ViolentPanda]

But which is worse a quick death at the hands of a firing squad under suspision of an alleged criminal tresspass, or a slow agonising death drowining in a sea of unsent petitions, newspaper sales targets and memos from central office demanding yet another recruitment drive to build the revolutionary party.

I'll take the quick death every time, thanks.

 

[manny-p]

noneed, he has already reiterated;

so do you agree?

 

[Athos]

Disingenuous? More like dishonest and absolutely of a par with what he always does.

I know. Not sure why I bother getting drawn into his shit.

 

[eoin_k]

you won't be needing this then.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Hmmm. From the facts on the ground the olsx are not anarchists or commies, just people with a shared sense of injustice and some well meaning ideas. The majority of them if they HAVE to be classified are Buddhists.

What is dismaying is that both the mainstream media and the collective wisdom of the so called political left seem to relish taking potshots at them and ascribing labels to them to disassociate themselves and their creeds from them.

Rarely have I seen anything which approaches a fair representation of those people involved from any of the groups reporting around them. Let alone anything like a supportive or positive encouragement.

To the mainstream they are dirty unwashed junkie hippies and to the wadical left they are unfocused jumped up petit borgious.

Both are so thoroughly entrenched in their ideas of what the olsx and the wider occupy movement should be and how it should behave to have bothered to take the time to find out the truth of the matter.

Many on here are frankly showing there naked prejudices as much as the mainstream.

The brutally sad thing is that as a result it only goes to show that modern left and right wing thinking is nothing more than sides of the same coin.

Time to become relevant or fuck off as the dinosaurs of another age. Cos at present both groups look like apologists who are intent on maintaining the status quo as it feathers there own nests.

Fucking pathetic.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Don't you think there's something disingenuous about quoting half a sentence?

don't you think this something disingenuous not dealing with the issue and just making up shit that me in the SWP are supposed to believe?

Whether anarchists like it or not, there is a democratic will of the majority. Those who concentrate on the actions of the collective,those who see the emancipation of the working class being the act of the working class, seek to work with the working-class, even when the will majority goes against what they believe would be best for the movement as a whole [ie the real world me]. SOME Anarchist's obsession with individual conscience and individual initiative leads them more often than not to spit their dummies when the vote goes against them,, fuckoff and do their own thing, instead of trying to work with people. This leaves them exposed as individuals, easy meat for the state to pick off and throw in jail, something I regret as I consider you comrades.in the case of Seattle, the actions of the anarchists gave this day an excuse to bash the movement as a whole. The movement as a whole paid the price for your ''freedom' imo.

 

[eoin_k]

...
Many on here are frankly showing there naked prejudices as much as the mainstream...

I think you have the wrong thread. This one is for ridiculing resistanceMP3 for trying to label members of the occupy movement as anarchists.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I will repost this link as it seems to have been ignored, and is in fact quite interesting on A anarchist position.

http://indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/11/489316.html

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

It simply ceases to be an issue of what they should be doing or should be saying or how they should be doing something else with this or that polical paradigm but one of what are you doing within a popular uprising to peruse those ends.

The answer is of corse deafening silence other than irrelevant bitching on the side lines as in reality is always the case.

Time to put up or fuck off.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I think you have the wrong thread. This one is for ridiculing resistanceMP3 for trying to label members of the occupy movement as anarchists.

according to one anarchist "The occupy movement is a genuine attempt to create the institutions of a new society in the shell of the old''​

The 'Occupy' movement is 'a genuine attempt to create the institutions of a new society in the shell of the old' [AFP]​

 

[manny-p]

SOME Anarchist's obsession with individual conscience and individual initiative leads them more often than not to spit their dummies when the vote goes against them

Give us an example of this?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I think you have the wrong thread. This one is for ridiculing resistanceMP3 for trying to label members of the occupy movement as anarchists.

I think most on these boards with professed left Wong ideals are nothin more than armchair generals with fuck all intention of doing anything like what the occupy movement have attempted because they are only interested in being right on the Internet.

This thread as with EVERY other bullshit thread on here on the subject really is about further entrenching those battlelines so pinkos and anarkids can say I'm considerably more radical than you...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I will repost this link as it seems to have been ignored, and is in fact quite interesting on A anarchist position.

http://indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/11/489316.html

Bullshit post by irrelevant label obsessed wanker is as relevant as George Osborne take on them...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Seriously. Resistances or any of you prize pussyholes what the fuck have you done....

Nothing. Fuck all. I posted my wadical thoughts on the interwebs. Fuck off. You're all fucking jokes..

 

[TremulousTetra]

Bullshit post by irrelevant label obsessed wanker is as relevant as George Osborne take on them...

Oh right, the usual, 'he aint a real anarchist' arguement. OK

 

[eoin_k]

according to one anarchist "The occupy movement is a genuine attempt to create the institutions of a new society in the shell of the old''

I've seen the SWP sniffing arround there trying to get in on the action. Perhaps it is a secret front set up by the CC and nobody told you about it. Seriously what does this prove. I know people who would consider themselves anarchists who have got involved. I also noticed some stoned people a few Turkish tankies, members of a womens football team and an Ayn Rand fanboy.

 

[TremulousTetra]

And all this about people using the democratic will of the majority to control anarchists is nothing but paranoia. Nobody wants to control anarchists.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I've seen the SWP sniffing arround there trying to get in on the action. Perhaps it is a secret front set up by the CC and nobody told you about it. Seriously what does this prove. I know people who would consider themselves anarchists who have got involved. I also noticed some stoned people a few Turkish tankies, members of a womens football team and an Ayn Rand fanboy.

I'm not interested in that strawman arguement. Never have been. Anarchism's obsession with the individual, which is constantly leading you into this kind of martyrdom.