fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
Israeli lobby
Who will be the next Labour leader?
- Thread starter Don Troooomp
- Start date
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
She could (and should) have told him to fuck off.
she didn’t because it would alienate her base. Same with the ‘Tory voting traitors’ woman.
fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Can’t tell if she want the traitors back or not?
But what does RLB do here? If she panders she looks shit to normal people; if she challenges, she looks shit to her batshit supporters
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
She had a great soundbite "Are you going to stick to your principles and forfeit power" ?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
How surprising to see the Guardian leading with a headline that Brexit didn’t influence the GE. Equally shocking that they think Sir Kier Waitrose is the right man to lead Labour and win back the racist prole gammon types:
www.theguardian.com
Labour leadership: blaming 2019 defeat just on Brexit 'not honest', says Starmer at Guardian hustings – as it happened
Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including the EU agreeing its negotiating mandate for the post-Brexit trade talks with the UK, and the Guardian’s Labour leadership hustings in Manchester
fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
Love this
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
that woman in the audience is a 100% legend. I wish she was running for Labour leader.
no pasaran! Death to all Tory-voting scabs and traitors!
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
The Red Roar account is peak centrist dad.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
How surprising to see the Guardian leading with a headline that Brexit didn’t influence the GE. Equally shocking that they think Sir Kier Waitrose is the right man to lead Labour and win back the racist prole gammon types:
Labour leadership: blaming 2019 defeat just on Brexit 'not honest', says Starmer at Guardian hustings – as it happened
Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including the EU agreeing its negotiating mandate for the post-Brexit trade talks with the UK, and the Guardian’s Labour leadership hustings in Manchester
Don’t polls suggest the ‘racist prole gammon types’ agree (at the moment) that he is?
This is one of the contradictions Labour has. Labour abandoned those communities, because it wasn’t sufficiently left to offer a socialist alternative. But the most volatile of those, who were able to vote Tory, are attracted to pretty mainstream things. Like a politician who looks like the archetype of a ‘proper’ politician and who doesn’t appear too threatening.
But the denial it was Brexit and the denial that it was Corbyn/leadership are pretty much as bad as each other. The seats lost are obvious and so was the negative voter reaction.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
No. The polls reveal he’s less unpopular than Nandy and RLB. That’s hardly a massive achievement. I agree that looking the part is important by the way. Something the middle class left constantly overlook.
But it’ll only take him so far. It’s also the case that most people, unless political hacks, have only formed a liminal view of any of the candidates at this point.
So a sort of Ed Miliband redux. But taking labour in the other direction.
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fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
I bet that Tory traitor woman posts on here 
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I bet that Tory traitor woman posts on here
She hasn’t got time. She’s running Burgon’s Twitter:
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
No I agree it’s no better than who is the least unpopular and there will be lines of attack for Starmer too that Tory leaning voters will love, too smooth, elitist etc. They will be levelled at him in a way Farage never has to field.
But there is a problem with chasing the ‘lost’ vote. It has not been culturally in sync with Labour for many years. It voted for Blair because he was a winner and the Tories made redundant. It didn’t like Corbyn and RLB has inherited that dislike, exacerbated by her poor performance and ‘onesie’ lack of gravity. A vote for her is in its face unless you presume that group will see the ‘error’ of its ways.
So the question is, to what extent is chasing that lost demographic Labour’s prime objective? If it is, then it probably has to be Nandy or Starmer unless you believe RLB can pull off a remarkable conversion of small town England to socialism.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
A major part of the challenge for Labour is how to re-embed itself in the communities that you describe. You can argue about the extent to how deep the embedding really was in respect of the LP itself but there was a tradition - via unions, community resources, workplace sport and social clubs and significant sites of working class cultural production - that it needs to recover if it’s not going to die off for good in many working class communities.
The resources should be there with 580,000 members. The issues - work, poverty, transport, crime, housing - where work could be engaged in are myriad
Of all of the candidates Starmer is the least well equipped, for the reasons discussed at length here, for that task. The best he can achieve is to deepen Labour support where it is already strong and win back a segment of the lost vote that wants a slick ‘proper’ leader. It’s not enough.
On the cultural rupture, which exists without a shadow of a doubt, there is no quick fix. It’s a problem that the left has faced since Nixon’s election in the United States and which is now playing out across Europe too.
But the work required to re-embed Labour is a critical starting point.
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Proper Tidy
Arsed
Jeff I know you use urban to vent and tbh I enjoy your posts but, while I have no problem with your stance as such, it's a bit of a contradiction from a labour supporter isn't it. I mean, it is solely an electoral vehicle. Which means getting people to vote for it.
Just wondering if you wouldn't be more suited to insurrectionary anarchism or maoism or something
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
You're probably right. I think coming from a long line of Tranmere Rovers supporters may have made me develop an unhealthy habit of perpetually cheering the side that’s doomed to failure.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I know there is an election going on. I can see where RB is pitching himself.... “Rayner will win but I want to come a strong second and ensure that the tradition I come from remains influential going forward”.
What’s interesting is that he thinks setting up strawman arguments like this, and then crowing about how unpopular they are, is the mechanism to deploy to achieve it. It suggests a very low assessment of the politics of a significant section of the membership
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i think posadism might be his natural home
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
that or Hoxhaism. It’s a tough call.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
posadism with robinsonian characteristics
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
All dead and gone for at least a couple of generations, in the places I know/knew.
Barely even a memory.
Or simply a crackpot.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
On your first point that’s true. And you can correlate the decline of Labour, Unions and the social, cultural and political agency of pro working class politics (which I deliberately separate out from Labour and the trade union movement politics) along a similar timeline.
On your suggestion that it’s ‘barely a memory’ I disagree. Contained within the anti politics, populist and anti establishment protests like Brexit, there is a deep longing, an interpretive nostalgia and a deep anger at what was lost.
By that I don’t mean communities mourn the loss of a local GMB Branch or a steelworks football team. I mean they are aware that the fact that they once existed was once part of being part of a producer economy now reduced to surplus population for the consumption society. I mean the knowledge that they have been moved from the centre of the economic conversation to the periphery and I mean the sense that their community has been unraveling and going backwards for 40 odd years.
The feeling is not limited to older people. It’s transmitted down generations but manifests itself in different ways
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Album title of the week.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
I think that’s the best summary you’ve made of that.
Within those groups those who still work in the public sector are maybe the happiest with Labour because that social compact remains in place. Those who are not either get by ok or struggle very badly.
Those who are ok include those who are getting by pretty well as small business owners or self employed. Some have become fairly natural Tories because they are self-reliant and want the simplest relationship with the state. Their views are often culturally at odds with Labour or so they/Labour believe. Those who are struggling (and everyone is precarious) just appear to feel abandoned by all.
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