Fair point. Even Starmer claims (
) to be accepting defeat in that respect.If non-fanatical and previously Remain-inclined types (eg me!) are any guide, I'll bet most of them would rather the next GE was fought on any other subject than Brexit
Who will be the next Labour leader?
- Thread starter Don Troooomp
- Start date
Fair point. Even Starmer claims (
) to be accepting defeat in that respect.If non-fanatical and previously Remain-inclined types (eg me!) are any guide, I'll bet most of them would rather the next GE was fought on any other subject than Brexit
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
What would a Remainer Labour leader do as PM if labour won the next GE? Stop Brexit?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
There's going to be some big decisions to be made in that 2023+ timeframe, and the on-the-street outcomes of whatever Johnson does or doesn't negotiate with the EU regarding the future relationship will be clear (for good or ill), so the job is going to need a thinker and a persuader - imv Nandy is the stand out candidate in that regard - but I fully accept the view that Labour need to become far more ruthless in ditching leaders who simply don't cut the electoral mustard.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
It depends on how Britain has fared post Brexit. If it’s made little difference to Britain’s economy and all the other relationships that went with the EU, then nothing. They can enjoy the latitude to state aid and redistribute. They may more have to concern themselves with the consequences of big flows of capital into the wrong places, like the housing market and the relationships the Tories have built with the rest of the world, the consequences for regulation etc.
If Britain is seriously suffering as a result of Brexit then you might equally ask what would a Leaver leader do? There would be several choices, to carrying on saluting as the boat goes down, while blaming the EU, to reestablish the relationships with the Single Market and EU, maybe like Norway, or to find a wholly new economic model of trade, ownership and distribution.
Rejoining the EU won’t be politically possible for a much longer span.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
If non-fanatical and previously Remain-inclined types (eg me!) are any guide, I'll bet most of them would rather the next GE was fought on any other subject than Brexit
Before we get there (and big LoL at the notion of a remainer labour leader winning a GE) it’ll be interesting to see how the tartan Tories fare in their independence referendum. It’s interesting because the offer is to leave Britain, and then make the necessary cuts to their own economy to accept the control of the EU.
I think they’ve misread the popular impulse that lead to the Brexit vote in Scotland. In my opinion that was more a rejection of Tory England than an embrace of the EU.
And as the EU economy continues to flatline the offer of fake socialists taking orders from neo-liberals in Brussels isn’t one that will command much WC support.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
I don’t believe it’s your intention, but this is not so far from English Nationalists’ ‘ha ha Scotland, what a joke, you can’t go it alone, you’ll be skint without us’.
Besides, it wouldn’t be beyond the EU to make it easy on Scotland to rejoin if it felt it was in its interest.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Starmer will be the next leader.
It will be a shit show.
Tories will win the next GE.
There, thread resolved
It will be a shit show.
Tories will win the next GE.
There, thread resolved
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I made 4 points in that post:
1. That the SNP are faux socialists/social democrats
2. That their position (the SNP's) is that they want a referendum and in the event of a 'Yes' vote will seek to rejoin the EU. To meet EU fiscal rules for entry they will have to reduce spending/increase productivity or both.
3. That part of the SNP calculation is that remain vote is pro-EU in character and I think that is partly true but I also think that part of it was a conscious vote against Tory England. Put another way in England a vote for was the two fingers to the British establishment option. In Scotland because of the presence of the SNP the reverse was the case and a remain vote was the anti-establishment vote.
4. That when the referendum is held that the dynamic described in point 3 will no longer be the case. I then went on to suggest that a future as a member state required to adhere to EU strictures will be the point of departure for many working class voters from the SNP.
How you have managed to extrapolate from that some whiff of English Nationalism or that I think Scotland is an object of amusement it is genuinely baffling. So, you'd better explain..... and it better be good or i'll need to speculate on your motives for the gratuitous insult.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
:leonidas:
Proper Tidy
Arsed
I think one thing being missed here re: snp is that indy supporters in scotland and wales are overwhelmingly pro eu because they see the eu as their route to independence (or independence from the uk) - with off the shelf trade deals, laws, even currency etc. This is why even the fringe radical left in eg plaid are uncritical of eu.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
I’ve no problem with most of your points, but you claim (in a way you wouldn’t do for the EU Leave vote) that the Scots didn’t really know what they were voting for in that referendum and would get a shock at the cost if that line was now continued. That’s parallel to English Nationalists or Unionist views on independence. You may be correct that the scenario is changed by seeking re-entry after independence, but support for those positions doesn’t appear to be waning.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
But. I didn’t claim that the Scots didn’t know what they were voting for. I claimed the opposite
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Ok, fair enough, but you claimed they were motivated by a desire to reject the English POV more than to support the EU.
Everything is contingent on circumstances. How the next few years play out. If Brexit goes ‘well’, cannot be spun as a failure, then that may count against the independence vote in the way you say. If it is a real or perceived failure then the reverse may be true and alignment may be sold as a necessary cost. Easier to do if there is already a demonstrable cost of being out. There may be another, socialist, alternative but it has a lot of ground to make up.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Related to this, find it weird and jarring how this rampant pro eu stance plays alongside the also very vocal support for catalonia and antipathy to spanish state. But there we go.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Always thought deselection would be a useful democratic process for the LP...just...maybe...not this way around?
Cue that Brecht poem [again].
Cue that Brecht poem [again].
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
If they elect Long Bailey to be leader (which they won’t), they will still be electorally irrelevant for next decade (which is a given), but the stuff within/around the party would be, er, spicier.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Even putting aside the dodgy and self-serving nature of the politics, it should be pretty clear that the Labour Party membership is about a zillion times more reflective of the Country than the Tory one and they won easily enough.
“It’s important for Labour that we’re loud and clear about our support for trans men and women. But to most people, this looks like a Labour Party that is not prepared to go out and grapple with the big issues that we face,” the leadership hopeful concluded.
Noting that she had been asked about safe spaces for women and trans rights “about 70 or 80 times”, and Israel and Palestine “about 50 times”, Nandy said: “I’ve been asked once how we win back Bassetlaw. That is a problem for the Labour Party.”
Interview: Lisa Nandy "surprised" by "level of misogyny" in leadership race - LabourList
Lisa Nandy has revealed, in an exclusive interview with LabourList, that she has been “surprised” at the “level…labourlist.org
Lisa Nandy on the nature of questions she is being asked at hustings, etc, its quite revealing
oh, and apparently Danny Boyle has made a film for Lisa Nandy, 6pm embargo
Last edited:
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
It’s a good point she makes. It’s easy to make Labour seem obsessed by certain issues if those are all you ask it about.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
He crossed a picket line to deliver that speech. On brand as ever.
Leopard, spots etc.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
link?
Lisa Nandy tells Danny Boyle her step-dad's poignant last words - about Bury FC
EXCLUSIVE The Labour leadership hopeful said the failure of the establishment to save the club from collapse 'tells a story' about things that have been lost in Britain - and a feeling among voters that politics has become pointless
www.mirror.co.uk
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Suddenly, my old Ma's infatuation with that nice Sir Kia's lovely suit, nice tie and good, sensible hair-cut might just start to wane. This could well be a clincher for her...handmaiden to the Queen of our hearts...the people's princess...
Rebecca Long-Bailey and Princess Diana's poignant meeting thanks to raffle win
Rebecca Long-Bailey and Princess Diana's poignant meeting thanks to raffle win
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
It's fucking awful. The content is boring. The culture and politics that underpin it are dreadful.
Similar threads
- Poll
