Who will be the next Labour leader?

[gosub]

solid revisionism here. May's approval ratings were spectacular before the election campaign.

And she offered her base sell your house to pay for care for the elderly whilst Mr Corbyn told those those disillusioed youngsters that had believed Clegg on student lia s that he would cancel them

 

[killer b]

so what? The only reason the 2017 election got to be about anything except brexit - and Labour's policies get given a hearing at all - is because Labour's 2017 manifesto more or less neutralised brexit as an issue. So it had to be fought on other terrain, on which the tories were found wanting.

 

[gosub]

I think 2017 UK voted mainly Brexit, with view to MPs working collectively which they didn't which is why Get Brexit done worked in 2019 (could elaborate but that's nutshell) But also in 2017 elderly care cost Tories some votes and turion fee saw an increase in youth vote that Labour benefutt d from 2019 Labout crossed publics credible deliverable Ruby on over broadband and a a Brexit position that was only credibly - x

 

[Proper Tidy]

so what? The only reason the 2017 election got to be about anything except brexit - and Labour's policies get given a hearing at all - is because Labour's 2017 manifesto more or less neutralised brexit as an issue. So it had to be fought on other terrain, on which the tories were found wanting.

Well this was exactly it. Which is why the 2019 brexit position of, in effect, a second ref, and in perception remain, was so shit. The key lesson of 2017 success - neutralise brexit, fight on other stuff - just ignored. And still ignored.

 

[killer b]

Well this was exactly it. Which is why the 2019 brexit position of, in effect, a second ref, and in perception remain, was so shit. The key lesson of 2017 success - neutralise brexit, fight on other stuff - just ignored. And still ignored.

I don't think this is really the whole story either though: it wasn't ignored - Corbyn in particular obviously saw the danger. But in 2017 there was a wide consensus among Labour members and voters that Brexit was settled and the referendum should be honoured, which meant Labour could adopt a pro-brexit (or really post-brexit) policy. That consensus no longer existed by 2019. It still doesn't exist now, and this campaign - for the votes of the Labour Party membership, not of the wider electorate - needs to be seen in that light.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Well this was exactly it. Which is why the 2019 brexit position of, in effect, a second ref, and in perception remain, was so shit. The key lesson of 2017 success - neutralise brexit, fight on other stuff - just ignored. And still ignored.

I keep forgetting the success of 2017.

 

[killer b]

I keep forgetting the success of 2017.

Why did you bother posting this? You know what he means.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I keep forgetting the success of 2017.

Then you're an idiot. Achieving a hung parliament was clearly a success in the context. The BBC even made a documentary about it. Actually winning a majority would have required a greater shift than ever seen in one GE. As it is, its vote went up nearly 10 points, the biggest increase in one GE since 1945.

I don't get this stuff tbh. Not arsed what people's politics are, why not just deal with things as they are, learn the positive and negative lessons and apply them to your own political objectives instead of doing the make believe thing. What's the point. May as well go I don't like tories so going to ignore them taking seats in 2019 that have never been tory before.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I don't think this is really the whole story either though: it wasn't ignored - Corbyn in particular obviously saw the danger. But in 2017 there was a wide consensus among Labour members and voters that Brexit was settled and the referendum should be honoured, which meant Labour could adopt a pro-brexit (or really post-brexit) policy. That consensus no longer existed by 2019. It still doesn't exist now, and this campaign - for the votes of the Labour Party membership, not of the wider electorate - needs to be seen in that light.

Yeah fair enough in that brexit less settled in '19 than '17, although it was still that key error of letting the tories make it a brexit election that was key electorally between the two

 

[sleaterkinney]

Why did you bother posting this? You know what he means.

He was up against a shit PM who didn't show up to the debates and was shafting her biggest voting block and he still lost, stop painting it like some sort of victory. Its bs.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Now

He was up against a shit PM who didn't show up to the debates and was shafting her biggest voting block and he still lost, stop painting it like some sort of victory. Its bs.

Then

It's great timing by May, instead of trying to get a hard brexit through with a small majority now she will have a big one and be able to push through whatever.

The only bright spot is that we may see the back of Corbyn a bit sooner.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I don't get this stuff tbh. Not arsed what people's politics are, why not just deal with things as they are, learn the positive and negative lessons and apply them to your own political objectives instead of doing the make believe thing. What's the point. May as well go I don't like tories so going to ignore them taking seats in 2019 that have never been tory before.

This from a trot.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Now


Then

I dunno, I'm not going to go back though years of your posts. It's a bit weird and sad tbh.

 

[Proper Tidy]

This from a trot.

Lol

 

[sleaterkinney]

Brexit is done and dusted anyway, pointless going over it.

 

[treelover]

Times reporting Trevor Philips suspended from Llabour with immediate effect, accusdations of islamaphobia, despite him championing the concept while at the EOC.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Times reporting Trevor Philips suspended from Llabour with immediate effect, accusdations of islamaphobia, despite him championing the concept while at the EOC.

Championing islamophobia is pretty bad though

 

[treelover]

I meant he championed the idea it existed and needed a response

 

[andysays]

Here's the Phillips story in case anyone wants to read it

Trevor Phillips suspended from Labour over Islamophobia allegations

The former UK equality watchdog chief, Trevor Phillips' has been suspended from the Labour Party over allegations of Islamophobia. The Times newspaper reported the anti-racism campaigner is being investigated over past comments dating back years.

Mr Phillips, ex-chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, said Labour was in danger of collapsing into a "brutish, authoritarian cult". Labour said it takes complaints about Islamophobia "extremely seriously".

 

[redsquirrel]

What proportion of the membership of the labour party do you think voted tory, expressed as a percentage

Good luck but its' really not worth bothering with this horrible anti-humanist prat Proper Tidy

This is the same dickhead who thinks anybody in the RMT is a goosestepper isn't it

Yeah,

 

[B.I.G]

Good luck but its' really not worth bothering with this horrible anti-humanist prat Proper Tidy

Yeah,

I just learned something about the RMT I didn’t know. Black cab drivers can be members. Certainly no racism in the RMT

 

[killer b]

He was up against a shit PM who didn't show up to the debates and was shafting her biggest voting block and he still lost, stop painting it like some sort of victory. Its bs.

Johnson was shit and avoided debates & scrutiny throughout this election campaign too. and yet here we are, with an 80 seat Tory majority.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I just learned something about the RMT I didn’t know. Black cab drivers can be members. Certainly no racism in the RMT

What about you, are you free of prejudge or do you think perhaps you hate/fear working class people maybe

 

[B.I.G]

What about you, are you free of prejudge or do you think perhaps you hate/fear working class people maybe

The London ones don’t seem as racist so im doing fine thank you. Should I go earn more money as a builder to reinforce my working class credentials or go buy a house in kent rather than privately renting to boost it as well.

 

[Proper Tidy]

The London ones don’t seem as racist so im doing fine thank you. Should I go earn more money as a builder to reinforce my working class credentials or go buy a house in kent rather than privately renting to boost it as well.

So your sole guide to whether somebody is racist is whether they voted leave or remain? Theresa May, not a racist.

Just weird how you seem to hate anybody with any sort of manual job, almost like it tells us something about you

 

[B.I.G]

So your sole guide to whether somebody is racist is whether they voted leave or remain? Theresa May, not a racist.

Just weird how you seem to hate anybody with any sort of manual job, almost like it tells us something about you

Is my job not manual? Certainly more manual than driving a taxi.

You keep claiming things I haven’t said. I personally know a person that voted leave who fought racism his whole life.

Is that to say that the majority of people that voted leave didn’t do so because they want less foreign voices spoken in their local park.

Keep pretending things are the way you want them to be to fit your views.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Is my job not manual? Certainly more manual than driving a taxi.

You keep claiming things I haven’t said. I personally know a person that voted leave who fought racism his whole life.

Is that to say that the majority of people that voted leave didn’t do so because they want less foreign voices spoken in their local park.

Keep pretending things are the way you want them to be to fit your views.

Ok so you don't think leave/remain is a clear cut barometer of how racist somebody is. What did you mean by this then?

The London ones don’t seem as racist

Funny how so far you've cited tube drivers, engine drivers, and taxi drivers as specifically racist, not for example estate agents or insurance brokers, just a bit of a them. Something to ponder as you defo spend your day being a builder perhaps

 

[B.I.G]

Ok so you don't think leave/remain is a clear cut barometer of how racist somebody is. What did you mean by this then?



Funny how so far you've cited tube drivers, engine drivers, and taxi drivers as specifically racist, not for example estate agents or insurance brokers, just a bit of a them. Something to ponder as you defo spend your day being a builder perhaps

I don’t know any estate agents or insurance brokers. If I meet one I will find out about their views and let you know.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I don’t know any estate agents or insurance brokers. If I meet one I will find out about their views and let you know.

Ok, appreciated.

What about why you think various types of drivers in london are less racist than drivers elsewhere, which defo isn't based on leave/remain, what's your reasoning there Bob?

 

[B.I.G]

Ok, appreciated.

What about why you think various types of drivers in london are less racist than drivers elsewhere, which defo isn't based on leave/remain, what's your reasoning there Bob?

Black cab drivers in London are definitely amongst the most racist of all groups.

I’m not sure I said what you say I said so I’m going to leave it there