Who will be the next Labour leader?

[brogdale]

Choose what? Everything. Nevermind the views of the membership?

brogdale see this is what I was trying to get at above. I think KK's view of leadership is not just wrong it's opposed to the principles of socialism.
It's the viewpoint that puts union bosses in charge of the decisions of industrial disputes rather than striking workers. It may or may not be a helpful viewpoint to the LP but it's a harmful one to workers.

The views of what makes a good leader for the LP are inseparable from what one views the purpose of the LP is.

Yeah, I suppose I was just engaging with speculating about the leadership on the basis of individual(s) charged with leading a social democratic party seeking electoral success. Nothing more than that.

 

[redsquirrel]

The leader of the party has to tell the membership when they are wrong - he's not just a cypher, he's a leader, a follower, sometimes a cypher, a persuader and an ambassador: his job is to persuade the electorate of the memberships views, as well as listen to the electorate and tell the membership when they are barking up the wrong tree.

Hang on you've gone from choose to persuade. There's a significant difference between those two.
I have no problem with a general secretary trying to persuade members of a course action, but the final decision should rest with the membership.

Yeah, I suppose I was just engaging with speculating about the leadership on the basis of individual(s) charged with leading a social democratic party seeking electoral success. Nothing more than that.

Yeah, no problem with that, chatting about stuff in net is fine. But in the wider picture I think this concentration on leadership is not just useless but harmful for the movement.

The Russian revolution lost its way when the Party took power from the soviets, the Spanish Revolution lost its way when the political "leadership" of the republic took control from the militias etc, unions lost their way when union bureaucracies took power away from workers.

I'm not an LP member, I'm not even a member of an affiliated union but if I was I'd vote for the person who would do best for workers not the one who'd do best for the LP. There's not going to be a candidate running on a platform of direct democracy but of there was that person would be a better "leader" for me than anyone else despite the fact that such a platform would probably tear the party apart.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I guess I see the same strengths (as it were) and have the same concerns of LN as others on this thread. Also not a member.

I’m also aware of my own er vulnerabilities to the kind of ‘economically socialist, culturally conservative’ schtick (ie my hatred of a university radical types) that others might be happy to go along with.

I need to flesh this out a bit more but here is what I think the next LP leader should be/do:

1. Listen to the working class. In all places. Of all ages.
2. Engage with the working class on the basis of what it is, and what it’s priories are, rather than what the left thinks it is.
3. Direct all member and financial resources to rebuilding local progressive politics and non-state networks: unions, community associations, sports clubs, food banks, branches etc etc
4. Re-embed collective ideas and social democratic politics. Strengthen shared cultural and social repertoires from the bottom up
5. Transform Labour into a ‘non-London’ Party. Devolve as much power as possible down and away from the possessors of cultural and social capital
6. More MPs and candidates from working class backgrounds. Instant right of recall for local parties over their candidates if they vote against the consensus of local constituents and members
7. Develop policy on the key issues: work, public services, infrastructure, the environment, housing, crime through the above rather than policy types
8. Build a social movement of millions - rooted in the class

 

[Shechemite]

I need to flesh this out a bit more but here is what I think the next LP leader should be/do:

1. Listen to the working class. In all places. Of all ages.
2. Engage with the working class on the basis of what it is, and what it’s priories are, rather than what the left thinks it is.
3. Direct all member and financial resources to rebuilding local progressive politics and non-state networks: unions, community associations, sports clubs, food banks, branches etc etc
4. Re-embed collective ideas and social democratic politics. Strengthen shared cultural and social repertoires from the bottom up
5. Transform Labour into a ‘non-London’ Party. Devolve as much power as possible down and away from the possessors of cultural and social capital
6. More MPs and candidates from working class backgrounds. Instant right of recall for local parties over their candidates if they vote against the consensus of local constituents and members
7. Develop policy on the key issues: work, public services, infrastructure, the environment, housing, crime through the above rather than policy types
8. Build a social movement of millions - rooted in the class

Yeah I’m pretty much my thoughts, but with a close eye on any developments that equate ‘non-london’ with anti-immigration/‘cosmopolitans’ crap

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I'm not an LP member, I'm not even a member of an affiliated union but if I was I'd vote for the person who would do best for workers not the one who'd do best for the LP. There's not going to be a candidate running on a platform of direct democracy but of there was that person would be a better "leader" for me than anyone else despite the fact that such a platform would probably tear the party apart.

I think a lot of us on here would agree with that.

The union I’m active in is the biggest affiliate. The full timers and lay hacks backing RLB or Rayner never pose their appeal on that basis. I’ll be interested to see what all of the candidates say but I don’t care what wing or endorsements they have if they aren’t committed to strengthening, embedding and most of all rebuilding the conditions for working class agency and self-determination I’ll be opposing them

 

[Shechemite]

I need to flesh this out a bit more but here is what I think the next LP leader should be/do:

2. Engage with the working class on the basis of what it is, and what it’s priories are, rather than what the left thinks it is.

And this will involve finding a way of having a commitment to social security that also recognises how utterly shit it is to be ‘looked after’ (I’ve spent a lot of my life being ‘cared for’. It’s not fun)

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Yeah I’m pretty much my thoughts, but with a close eye on any developments that equate ‘non-london’ with anti-immigration/‘cosmopolitans’ crap

Scum like Mason and Novara want to turn this into a ‘culture war’ where pro working class ideas can be painted as racist or ‘blue labour’. At the same time they seek an accommodation with centrists

Their agenda cannot be emphasised and understood enough in my view

 

[Shechemite]

Scum like Mason and Novara want to turn this into a ‘culture war’ where pro working class ideas can be painted as racist or ‘blue labour’. At the same time they seek an accommodation with centrists

Their agenda cannot be emphasised and understood enough in my view

Well yeah, the culture war shite comes from both sides.

Plus I know I need to learn from my own mistakes around ‘identity’

 

[kenny g]

After voting for Ed Milliband based on union recommendation I am definitely going to research to the upmost before casting my vote this time. Corbyn was the best of a very bad bunch. Barry Gardiner is a total and utter disaster.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

And this will involve finding a way of having a commitment to social security that also recognises how utterly shit it is to be ‘looked after’ (I’ve spent a lot of my life being ‘cared for’. It’s not fun)

This is the one thing about the LP and it’s vocal supporters that most boils the piss of my workmates .

They don’t see themselves as victims. They don’t see their lives as shit. They don’t want to be looked after.

 

[Shechemite]

This is the one thing about the LP and it’s vocal supporters that most boils the piss of my workmates .

They don’t see themselves as victims. They don’t see their lives as shit. They don’t want to be looked after.

“The 1970s were great”. Er what?

 

[Shechemite]

As an aside, there’s a lot of weird nostalgia for the old mental institutions within ‘the disabled people’s movement’.

And you just know that any future campaigns around the NHS will be dominated by professionals and their paternalistic politics.

 

[kenny g]

Just to add, I would be highly suspicious of making labour "non-london". Don't turn your back on your core support. It is fantastic that the Lib Dems didn't get a shoe in in the capital beyond kicking a Tory out.

People need to understand that the rejection of Labour included a rejection of Corbyn due partly to his perceived lack of support for the military. There needs to be a clear labour defence policy fully supporting the use of the armed forces as we face the full impact of climate change. Significant pay increases should be available along with a home for heroes policy.

 

[Shechemite]

Careful now

 

[kenny g]

Completely agree about the rejection of "oxfam politics". People give money to oxfam they don't vote for it.

 

[oryx]

The leader of the party has to tell the membership when they are wrong - he's not just a cypher, he's a leader, a follower, sometimes a cypher, a persuader and an ambassador: his job is to persuade the electorate of the memberships views, as well as listen to the electorate and tell the membership when they are barking up the wrong tree.

'He'??

 

[Steel Icarus]

People need to understand that the rejection of Labour included a rejection of Corbyn due partly to his perceived lack of support for the military. There needs to be a clear labour defence policy fully supporting the use of the armed forces as we face the full impact of climate change. Significant pay increases should be available along with a home for heroes policy.

Home for what now?

 

[kebabking]

'He'??

I'm pretty sure Corbyn is a he.

 

[oryx]

I'm pretty sure Corbyn is a he.

Thought you were talking about a potential leader rather than Corbyn.

 

[rekil]

Dua Lipa. If she can bat away the inevitable hobbyist accusations.

 

[Shechemite]

Alistair Campbell. Labour for full rejoin

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

With a left wing memebership wouldn’t it be difficult to ditch an established left wing party platform?

Yeah sure. I think if there ends up being an 'anointed successor' candidate they'd probably win given the membership. I just don't think the idea that it's either a Corbynite or Blairite candidate - someone from that Miliband type background will be trying to sell themselves as left enough, in a way an outright Blairite couldn't.

 

[tim]

Er, did you see my post about her history on social security?

The question is not who I want, buy who will be the next Labour Leader.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Shit poll, the correct answer is Angela Rayner.

 

[extra dry]

They need to get a big movie star, comedian or an intelligent footballer, say Gary Linerker or sporting hero like Frank Bruno, or hit the ejevt button David Icke

 

[SpookyFrank]

They need to get a big movie star, comedian or an intelligent footballer, say Gary Linerker or sporting hero like Frank Bruno, or hit the ejevt button David Icke

I'd vote for Frank Bruno.

Lineker on the other hand is a fucking bellend.

 

[chilango]

Throw money at the SNP to sign Sturgeon.

 

[Wilf]

Throw money at the SNP to sign Sturgeon.

Probably wouldn't want the SNP's previous leader...

 

[Sue]

I'd vote for Frank Bruno.

Lineker on the other hand is a fucking bellend.

Was he (Bruno) not a Tory..?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Was he (Bruno) not a Tory..?

I dunno I just remember he was good at beating people up when I was a kid, and I admired that.

I've got a signed copy of his autobiography but I've never read it.