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Who will be the next Labour leader?

Who will replace Corbyn?

  • Total voters
    161
Proper Tidy said:
He was carpet bombed before '17, I mean come on. There was only one substantive change and the losses all occurred in seats that would object to that change, everything else is just wind
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It wasn't just that though, was it?. He was up against a very different PM in a different situation. You can't just say it was a re-run of 17 - where he didn't win either.
 
also labour were never going to be able to out-Brexit the tories, so they were fucked anyway. I don’t think they’d have won those red-wall seats even without the PV policy.
 
Mr Moose said:
There is a very good chance that after two years of personal carpet bombing by the press, Corbyn’s weak 2017 Brexit position would not have been enough to keep those seats. It was doomed.

Get Brexit, get Johnson. Was always going to happen, just took longer to play out.
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If Labour had held to its 2017 position - we will honour the result, we will seek to negotiate the best possible agreement that protects workers rights, environmental standards etc - then the fury at the sense of betrayal would not have manifested itself. That sense of betrayal and a resurgent Tory Party under Johnston simply repeating 'get Brexit Done' was an entirely predictable and devastating combination. So predictable that many of us did predict it. Yes Corbyn was a massive issue on the doorstep but it was unquestionably Brexit that generated the really and deep fury

Had Labour stuck to its position - and let's be clear that was Corbyn's preference - then in remain areas it would have then been a case of explaining why democratic decisions must be respected, why a LD vote is always a wasted vote and why Labour would safeguard lots of the things that remainers held dear.

We will never know how it would be turned out. But we do know a) how the alternative played out and b) who was at the centre of moving Labour to the mess that was its final position on the matter.
 
fakeplasticgirl said:
also labour were never going to be able to out-Brexit the tories, so they were fucked anyway. I don’t think they’d have won those red-wall seats even without the PV policy.
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It wasn't possible but more importantly it wasn't necessary. The anger was not at the extent of Brexit but at a democratic vote being overturned.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
If Labour had held to its 2017 position - we will honour the result, we will seek to negotiate the best possible agreement that protects workers rights, environmental standards etc - then the fury at the sense of betrayal would not have manifested itself. That sense of betrayal and a resurgent Tory Party under Johnston simply repeating 'get Brexit Done' was an entirely predictable and devastating combination. So predictable that many of us did predict it. Yes Corbyn was a massive issue on the doorstep but it was unquestionably Brexit that generated the really and deep fury

Had Labour stuck to its position - and let's be clear that was Corbyn's preference - then in remain areas it would have then been a case of explaining why democratic decisions must be respected, why a LD vote is always a wasted vote and why Labour would safeguard lots of the things that remainers held dear.

We will never know how it would be turned out. But we do know a) how the alternative played out and b) who was at the centre of moving Labour to the mess that was its final position on the matter.
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But wouldn’t this have required Labour to support BoZo (or May’s) deal?
 
Smokeandsteam said:
If Labour had held to its 2017 position - we will honour the result, we will seek to negotiate the best possible agreement that protects workers rights, environmental standards etc - then the fury at the sense of betrayal would not have manifested itself. That sense of betrayal and a resurgent Tory Party under Johnston simply repeating 'get Brexit Done' was an entirely predictable and devastating combination. So predictable that many of us did predict it. Yes Corbyn was a massive issue on the doorstep but it was unquestionably Brexit that generated the really and deep fury

Had Labour stuck to its position - and let's be clear that was Corbyn's preference - then in remain areas it would have then been a case of explaining why democratic decisions must be respected, why a LD vote is always a wasted vote and why Labour would safeguard lots of the things that remainers held dear.

We will never know how it would be turned out. But we do know a) how the alternative played out and b) who was at the centre of moving Labour to the mess that was its final position on the matter.
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Fair enough, but didn’t that surge of fury start before Labour abandoned its position, with the Brexit Party and the EU elections? Labour position didn’t make it immune, it was losing ground from then on.
 
fakeplasticgirl said:
But wouldn’t this have required Labour to support BoZo (or May’s) deal?
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Not necessarily. They could have campaigned for their own demands and their vision. The key was simple - they needed to respect the outcome of the referendum and the vote. There wasn't one Labour to Tory switcher I met who was doing so over the detail - it was a matter of the principle and the lack of respect. It was about the fact that people had worked out that Labour didn't care about their opinion.

In my view, and I have banged on for years about this and won't again, there was a massive missed chance here. Labour could have exploited the Tory civil war over Europe and won mass support for a deal based upon a progressive social democratic brexit and future.

Instead, and I also blame Starmer in part for this, Labour became obsessed with defining its position in response to what the Tories did and purely via Parliamentary games. Not only did that only increase the fury towards Labour but it also cost Corbyn the outsider status he enjoyed in 2017.
 
Mr Moose said:
Fair enough, but didn’t that surge of fury start before Labour abandoned its position, with the Brexit Party and the EU elections? Labour position didn’t make it immune, it was losing ground from then on.
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It did. But Labour's position had also shifted before the EU election.
 
Marty1 said:
Did anyone catch this interview RLB with Andrew Neil? Apparently it didn’t go well but I’ve only watched some of the short clips.

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That's not too good, she needed to stop him talking over her, not assertive enough.
 

Left for Dead?: The Strange Death and Rebirth of the Labour Party eBook : Goodall, Lewis: Amazon.co.uk: Books

Left for Dead?: The Strange Death and Rebirth of the Labour Party eBook : Goodall, Lewis: Amazon.co.uk: Books
www.amazon.co.uk


Lewis Goodall, ex Sky News/Now Newsnight((Grand Dad a Docker, Dad worked at Longbridge, not sure how long)seemed to predict the rise and possible fall of Corbynism in his book
'Left for Dead?: The Strange Death and Rebirth of the Labour Party' Not sure if any of the candidates are going to win back the sort of people he writes about.
 
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Labour should have been against brexit from the start, it's purely an idea from the right wing of Tory party.

They could have hammered them on the mess they were making of it and the deal Johnson ended up with, a border down the Irish sea, but Corbyn was a muddled mess all along.
 
treelover said:

Left for Dead?: The Strange Death and Rebirth of the Labour Party eBook : Goodall, Lewis: Amazon.co.uk: Books

Left for Dead?: The Strange Death and Rebirth of the Labour Party eBook : Goodall, Lewis: Amazon.co.uk: Books
www.amazon.co.uk


Lewis Goodall, ex Sky News/now Newsnight((Grand Dad a docker, dad worked at Longbridge, not sure how long)seemed to predict the rise and possible fall of Corbynism in his book
'Left for Dead?: The Strange Death and Rebirth of the Labour Party' Not sure if any of the candidates are going to win back the sort of people he writes about.
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This is a great book!
 
i thought he was more than 30, his packages for Sky News 'The Line', going to left behind areas, etc, were often very moving and astute, probably a bad move going to Newsnight as it is about to have its budget slashed.
 
sleaterkinney said:
It wasn't just that though, was it?. He was up against a very different PM in a different situation. You can't just say it was a re-run of 17 - where he didn't win either.
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Yes, a different situation in which the tories could focus everything on 'getting brexit done' at expense of anything else. So why could they do that in 2019 when they couldn't in 2017? I mean fucks sake, everybody can have their own political views but this is about something that is plain and obvious and simple
 
Proper Tidy said:
Yes, a different situation in which the tories could focus everything on 'getting brexit done' at expense of anything else. So why could they do that in 2019 when they couldn't in 2017? I mean fucks sake, everybody can have their own political views but this is about something that is plain and obvious and simple
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Even if Labour did keep their 2017 position, that meant more negotiations and a soft brexit, so they would still get hammered on that, you can't out-Brexit the Tories.
 
Proper Tidy said:
Yes, a different situation in which the tories could focus everything on 'getting brexit done' at expense of anything else. So why could they do that in 2019 when they couldn't in 2017? I mean fucks sake, everybody can have their own political views but this is about something that is plain and obvious and simple
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I'm not sure Tories actually wanted to win in 2017 When your core base is the affluent and the older voter then sell your house to provide care for care in your old age was an odd policy. But then pretty much everything May did seemed like an object lesson in what not to do, maybe she saw it as a Nixon goes to China.
 
Proper Tidy said:
They didn't have to 'out brexit' the tories. They just had to not demonstrate a lack of respect for public agency, and then have room to campaign on stuff that isn't brexit.
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It's exactly that lack of respect, but urged more publicly, more overtly that this goon thinks would have been a better option for labour. Basically because he supports remain and doesn't care about the actual outcome of taking such a position. We got a taste of it in the actual election and not a whit of understanding what it would have meant to go full-remain as he/they foot stamped has been shown since. Never mind taking responsibility.
 
butchersapron said:
It's exactly that lack of respect, but urged more publicly, more overtly that this goon thinks would have been a better option for labour. Basically because he supports remain and doesn't care about the actual outcome of taking such a position. We got a taste of it in the actual election and not a whit of understanding what it would have meant to go full-remain as he/they foot stamped has been shown since. Never mind taking responsibility.
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I think a better option for Labour would have been to send Corbyn off a long time ago.
I do support remain, and the tory brexit will be in full swing shortly - it won’t be something I voted for.
 
sleaterkinney said:
I think a better option for Labour would have been to send Corbyn off a long time ago.
I do support remain, and the tory brexit will be in full swing shortly - it won’t be something I voted for.
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Did you have a vote? In either the election or referendum?

Regardless, you certainly stamped your feet loud enough with similar like-minded people to get the policy adopted by labour that ensured a tory brexit took place. Well done.
 
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sleaterkinney said:
If it was a overwhelming vote for leave then yeah, but 52% to 48%?. Nope.
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Of course, then it makes total sense to agitate for something that ensures that the thing that you oppose happens. Then blame it on damn lefties. Not your own policy being adopted - but those who oppose that policy.
 
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