fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
Afraid so.
Who will be the next Labour leader?
- Thread starter Don Troooomp
- Start date
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
He did say that the 100k already revealed was the biggest donation, so if there is anything bigger from Odious Tycoon he will have skewered himself.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes, the biggest donation revealed, so far.
The relevant electoral law determines that donations do not have to be formally 'accepted' for 30 days after the actual date of donation and do not have to be declared for a further 28 days after that.
How very convenient for any interests keen to undermine the socialism is a 'socialist' democratic party.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Waitrose’s journey to ‘the red wall’ (which he made sound like a colonial expedition) was especially revealing. It turns out all we wanted after all was a ‘gritty’ conversation and then we’d be happy to see our communities destroyed and then ignored. To see lives turned into recycled pools of labour working on business parks for minimum wage. To be managed as surplus zones of population.
But, ultimately, happy Sir Kier Waitrose came up on a train to give it to us between the eyes before retiring to a gratis hotel for the evening with his advisers
But, ultimately, happy Sir Kier Waitrose came up on a train to give it to us between the eyes before retiring to a gratis hotel for the evening with his advisers
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Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Yes. Now he’s been called out on it by the other candidates it’s impossible to infer anything good from his unwillingness to answer.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
You have said previously you are in South London. Im in Lambeth. A borough still run by New Labour Cllrs. They were against Corbyn from the start. Liz Kendell then Owen Smith. Now they are keen on Starmer
As Ive posted previously of my experience in local community issues I dont like New Labour. Im really concerned that the now old New Labour establishment. Entrenched in a local Council like mine will relish the thought that election of Starmer will be part of the long haul to get the party back for them. They have hung on in places like Lambeth throughout Corbyn leadership.
The membership has increased since Corbyn. Old Labour rejoining and new young people. These are good people. The old New Labour establishment in Lambeth hasnt welcomed them with open arms. Chuka left mainly because he was out of step with local membership.
Having had to deal with the New Labour "centre ground" for years I dont want its return to run the party.
Im mainly interested in bread and butter issues that effect my local community.
Im wondering what your actual experience of the local Labour party is.
Why you think Starmer is good choice.
Do you support the idea of a local Labour party which welcomes people who campaign on local issues. Rather than seeing them as a problem.
People in my area vote Labour still. Even if its not liked ( to add its not liked locally)
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fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
What does keir starmer have to do with new labour, other than the fact some new labour people are voting for him? Plenty of corbynites like him too. People such as Laura Parker, Momentum’s former national coordinator. I was phone banking next to her last week. Show me evidence starmer is new labour? He is not new labour.
I want Keir Starmer to win because Labour have just had their worst defeat in 85 years and I think he’s best placed to win an election. Simple as that.
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Humberto
Godspede
Not pro working-class?
fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
Corbyn repelled the working classes. And now labour have lost four elections in a row
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The leader of Lambeth Council came out for Starmer at the very start. Once Starmer is leader there is going to be a struggle. People like my Cllrs never wanted Corbyn. They didnt want any of it I dont see how one individual can unite a party.
From what Ive seen of Lambeth the left and right of the party dont see eye to eye. The right of the party control the Council. The left in Streatham got there candidate in as MP despite two Cllrs trying to get the seat. Who the membership rejected. Its a divided party.
I also wonder what is going to happen to the idea of community organising.
Its definitely not something my Cllrs are keen on. Its more like something they have to put up with. Recent meeting one of them lost it and started telling people they were the ususal suspects who always complain.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Going back to our patch South London. No he didnt. Labour did well in Lambeth. Helen Hayes and the new MP for Streatham Bell Ribeiro- Addy ( replaced Chuka and is on left of party) So I dont know which working classes you talk to in London because most people I know supported Labour.
fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
I’m not talking about London. I’m talking about northern England. He was seen as unpatriotic.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
You said the working classes. Do the working class not live in London?
You said "Corbyn repelled the working classes". Im saying in our patch London he didnt.
Humberto
Godspede
Corbyn repelled the working classes. And now labour have lost four elections in a row
To make progress they need to make clear policy statements, not wheel out a few bribes come election time. Does Starmer come across as capable of that? And/or is he at least inspiring/charismatic given the roasting any Labour leader can expect unless they 'play nice'. It's going nowhere. It's a small time move.
fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
And I’m sorry if you’ve had issues with local councillors, and it’s great that new people have joined since 2015, but first, loads on the left support Starmer too, and secondly that’s of no use really if we keep losing elections. I’m campaigning with a lot of people from momentum. Starmer’s just non factional. I think and hope your fears are unfounded.
He’s had direct experience of running a large organisation and labour needs that - another issue I’ve had is with anti semitism. I’m Jewish and have heard horrible stuff. I don’t think Corbyn is anti Semitic btw, but he didn’t deal with it properly.
oryx
Sitting on the bok of the day
How do you think Starmer will go down in what were leave voting areas/ the 'Red Wall'/whatever you call it, given the perception of him as a remainer? (Also as a London centric member of the elite, which I do think is slightly unfair BTW)?
fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
But there’s no point hoarding up votes in labour strong-holds and losing them everywhere else come election time.
Now, obviously I don’t live in northern England, so I’m going on what I’ve read, but I highly recommend Lewis Goodall’s book “Left for Dead” for an examination of how Corbyn has got the young/ student/ middle class lecturer vote and completely lost the working classes.
will starmer do better? I think he’s very competent and he will. If I’m wrong and he starts tanking in the polls well... I guess I’ll cry and jump on the Nandwagon.
Anyway, off to bed now. Night.
fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
As I’ve posted here before, current polling shows he’s the most popular of the three amongst the red wall. RLB’s polling is horrific.
Humberto
Godspede
Does she actually give a fuck? I don't know. But she gets involved in stuff you would want from a Labour MP.
oryx
Sitting on the bok of the day
Have you got a source for that? Have gone a fair few posts back and can't see anything. YouGov?
Unfortunately, I can see him winning the leadership election and being Ed Miliband Mark II. He's moderately likeable. Notwithstanding me choking with laughter over MadeInBedlam 's comments on his likeness to Ben Swain, I don't think he's that bad a media performer. He's just a bit...meh, and IMHO he has a dodgy voting record.
If he makes steps to uniting the party, and wins an election, I will be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not holding my breath.
fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
I guess he might end up being Ed Miliband Mark 2. And I’ll be disappointed. But out of the three I think he’s the best of the lot. RLB will be an electoral disaster and nandy isn’t ready imo.
(actually going to bed now).
oryx
Sitting on the bok of the day
I suppose that my view is Starmer will be a Miliband or a Kinnock (I liked and voted for the former, didn't like the latter). But either way, they didn't win a GE.
Long Bailey (and to an extent Lisa Nandy) are more of a change, a breath of fresh air, less 'establishment'. Someone I know said they could see Long Bailey growing in the role in the way that Nicola Sturgeon (a politician I admire and respect) did.
I posted (way) above that if Labour had been in power during Brexit negotiations, he would have been a very able, constructive and collaborative negotiator. I am less convinced about his ability to unite the LP and win a GE because whatever current opinion polls say, I see his position as a second referendum backer as problematic (in terms of a GE) and the possibility of him reintroducing 'Controls on Immigration' mugs and 'we're the party of people who work' type politics (in terms of internal party politics).
Proper Tidy
Arsed
I think the decline of the labour party outside of the cities is a bit more than this and tbh this sort of stuff is pretty lazy and insulting really. Also the single issue which most undermined that vote in 'northern england' (which includes west/east mids and wales apparently) between '17 and' 19 was the fucking batshit brexit position. The one that starmer still stands by.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
If you want to know how badly unmoored the Labour Party is, and how disorientated it is,consider this. Starmer is busy publicly rewriting the entire history of what happened on Brexit, his role and Corbyn's. None of the other leadership challengers have pulled him on it or sought to engage him on it.
Given that his offer to members is based on his record. And given that at the centre of that record, as a pol anyway, are the judgements he made, the position that he adopted in public and in reality and the role he played in Labour's approach to Brexit shouldn't they? Isn't it odd that the man who led Labour on the issue that cost them an election and led to their worst performance since the 1930's will be elected leader without anyone saying a word about it. Astonishing.
fakeplasticgirl
Keirleader
[QUOTE="oryx, post: 16427565, member:]/see his position as a second referendum backer as problematic (in terms of a GE) and the possibility of him reintroducing 'Controls on Immigration' mugs and 'we're the party of people who work' type politics (in terms of internal party politics).
[/QUOTE]
Why do you think he’d bring back those revolting controls of immigrations mugs? I’ve seen nothing to suggest he would. Lisa Nandy might though.
I like Nicola sturgeon too, and don’t see any similarities between her and RLB. To me, RLB comes across as wooden and scripted. I just can’t see her appealing to anybody outside her core support.
[/QUOTE]
Why do you think he’d bring back those revolting controls of immigrations mugs? I’ve seen nothing to suggest he would. Lisa Nandy might though.
I like Nicola sturgeon too, and don’t see any similarities between her and RLB. To me, RLB comes across as wooden and scripted. I just can’t see her appealing to anybody outside her core support.
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