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Who will be the next Labour leader?

Who will replace Corbyn?


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What are posters shadow cabinet predictions then?

Leader: Slay Queen RLB
Deputy Leader: Jeremy Corbyn
Shadow Queen: Meghan Merkel
Shadow Chancellor: John McDonnell
Shadow Home Secretary: Diane Abbott
Shadow Attorney General: Shami Chakrabarti
Shadow Minister for Nothern Ireland: Gerry Adams
Shadow Minister for Europe: Michel Barnier
Shadow Minister for Culture: Stormzy
Shadow Minister for Defence: Abu Hamza
Shadow DEFRA secretary: Joey Carbstrong
Shadow Minister for DWP: Ken Loach
Shadow Foreign Secretary: Raul Castro
Shadow Minister for Health: Bernie Sanders
Shadow Education Secretary: Enver Hoxha’s corpse

#winningteam
 
Leader: Slay Queen RLB
Deputy Leader: Jeremy Corbyn
Shadow Queen: Meghan Merkel
Shadow Chancellor: John McDonnell
Shadow Home Secretary: Diane Abbott
Shadow Attorney General: Shami Chakrabarti
Shadow Minister for Nothern Ireland: Gerry Adams
Shadow Minister for Europe: Michel Barnier
Shadow Minister for Culture: Stormzy
Shadow Minister for Defence: Abu Hamza
Shadow DEFRA secretary: Joey Carbstrong
Shadow Minister for DWP: Ken Loach
Shadow Foreign Secretary: Raul Castro
Shadow Minister for Health: Bernie Sanders
Shadow Education Secretary: Enver Hoxha’s corpse

#winningteam
That Abbott prediction looks pretty improbable, tbh.
 
Leader: Slay Queen RLB
Deputy Leader: Jeremy Corbyn
Shadow Queen: Meghan Merkel
Shadow Chancellor: John McDonnell
Shadow Home Secretary: Diane Abbott
Shadow Attorney General: Shami Chakrabarti
Shadow Minister for Nothern Ireland: Gerry Adams
Shadow Minister for Europe: Michel Barnier
Shadow Minister for Culture: Stormzy
Shadow Minister for Defence: Abu Hamza
Shadow DEFRA secretary: Joey Carbstrong
Shadow Minister for DWP: Ken Loach
Shadow Foreign Secretary: Raul Castro
Shadow Minister for Health: Bernie Sanders
Shadow Education Secretary: Enver Hoxha’s corpse

#winningteam

That’s more like it. Smile and the world smiles with you
 
Going back to Proper Tidy's point a few pages ago what do you intend to do if (when) Starmer becomes leader and moves the party to the right? Where are your red lines for remaining a member? What would, say, Rachel "tougher than the tories" Reeves getting a shadow cabinet place mean to you?
A member mate of mine tells me that the right are already putting it about that La Reeves has been on a personal "political journey". :D
 
Going back to Proper Tidy's point a few pages ago what do you intend to do if (when) Starmer becomes leader and moves the party to the right? Where are your red lines for remaining a member? What would, say, Rachel "tougher than the tories" Reeves getting a shadow cabinet place mean to you?

Wouldn’t take much for me to quit tbh, but Labour would have to go VERY far to the right for me to stop voting for them against the Nationalist Trumpist Tory scum.
 
Amongst a list of some noteworthy donors, I see that Nandy got a personal £4k from John Reid:

The financial backers of the Wigan MP who have donated over £1,500 include:

  • Mark Glover, a former Labour councillor and the CEO of Newington Communications, a PR consultancy with clients such as Anglian Water, Canary Wharf Group and e-Power.
  • Ann Luise Fitzwalter, a former Bury councillor and former director of Bury’s council house management company Six Town Housing.
  • Eric Salama, who was chief executive of market research company Kantar until last month.
  • Sonny Leong, who is currently the Chair of Chinese for Labour, a party-affiliated socialist society.
  • Tom Shutes, a businessman who is involved in the regeneration of Grimsby.
  • Howard Bernstein, who was Manchester Council’s chief executive from 1998 to 2017 and is vice-chair of the Jewish Leadership Council.
  • Jason Stockwood, vice-chair of online insurance broker Simply Business.
  • Andrew Colis, a public relations consultant who is also Lisa Nandy’s husband.
  • Better World Ltd, whose director is Henry Tinsley, the former chair of Green & Blacks who has made donations to both Labour and the Liberal Democrats.
  • Innovation in Housing Ltd, who director is Vaqas Farooq, a real estate lawyer and board member of law firm Shoosmiths.
  • GMB, the party-affiliated trade union that helped Nandy make the ballot paper in the leadership contest.
  • Simon Tuttle, chair of advocacy group Hope not Hate.
  • John Reid, a Labour peer who served as Home Secretary under Tony Blair.
  • John Mills, the pro-Brexit major donor to Labour who founded consumer products company JML and chaired Labour Leave.
 
Its not so much Reeves I am concerned about as Cooper, the architect of the WCA, the invisible wheelchair test for ESA, ATOs, etc, she also is on record as saying at the time, the balance of power between tenant and landlord still needed moving more to the latter.

I will consider leaving if she joins shadow cabinet, at least Liam Byrne has recanted a bit.
 
Social mobility in the 60s & 70s wasn't about working class people getting jobs as judges or on the boards of companies. Those jobs were still reserved for the upper middle/upper class. But it was the time of big state owned companies, jobs for life and unionised manufacturing in the UK. A young working class lad (and it probably would be a man - women were still mostly secretaries or teachers or staying home to bring up the kids) could get a low level job in a big company and over the years get promoted to middle management, moving to the lower middle class. Big companies might pay for them to get a degree (maybe through the open university) to skill them up. It was still possible to get on the housing ladder.

These days jobs for life are mostly a thing of the past, so the possibility for that advancement is reduced. Unions are eviscerated and companies don't put the money into developing staff. Shit, most places are quite happy to get rid of long term staff to replace them with younger, cheaper people. Many big industries have disappeared overseas. There aren't the same opportunities for social mobility as there used to be.

Cheers a good post.
 
Its not so much Reeves I am concerned about as Cooper, the architect of the WCA, the invisible wheelchair test for ESA, ATOs, etc, she also is on record as saying at the time, the balance of power between tenant and landlord still needed moving more to the latter.

I will consider leaving if she joins shadow cabinet, at least Liam Byrne has recanted a bit.

Reeves is horrible but yeah cooper, I can't imagine how anybody could throw themselves behind a party with her front and centre. She's a fucking ghoul
 
Reeves is horrible but yeah cooper, I can't imagine how anybody could throw themselves behind a party with her front and centre. She's a fucking ghoul

I’ll be surprised if she isn’t resurrected at some point by Sir Kier. Not shadow chancellor maybe but entire career has been about the promotion of the narrating class and the defence of dead centrist politics.
 
she also is on record as saying at the time, the balance of power between tenant and landlord still needed moving more to the latter.
Do you, by any chance, have a link showing where Cooper said that?
No worries if not, but it would be useful if you point to where/when it came from.
 
A timely and useful intervention from Ian Lavery and John Trickett. I don’t share their belief in the role and history of the Labour Party. But their intervention and promotion of working class interests is very important given the likely victory of Starmer.

Let’s renew the social contract which we always wanted to create between our movement and the nation. Labour was never intended to be a career ladder constructed for professional politicians to climb. It was created to be a mass movement designed to transform our society from top to bottom.

Our purpose was to promote the common good; a better society for all. The first step on our journey is surely to rediscover our working-class foundations, upon which a great movement can yet be built.


 
If the social contract/1945-1979 labour was so good for social mobility (and for disabled people), why did successive post war labour governments support mass, life long institutionalisation?
 
If the social contract/1945-1979 labour was so good for social mobility (and for disabled people), why did successive post war labour governments support mass, life long institutionalisation?
I don't think anyone has said the post war social contract was good for disabled people. The treatment of disabled people right up to the 90s was fucking shameful - lock 'em up; treat 'em like children at best, animals at worst; out of sight, out of mind.

Of course the treatment of disabled people since the 90s has been fucking shameful too, but for different reasons - big talk about support in the community, but not enough money to pay for it so disabled people are forced to exist rather than live, relying on failing services to get by.
 
If the social contract/1945-1979 labour was so good for social mobility (and for disabled people), why did successive post war labour governments support mass, life long institutionalisation?

It was a social democracy which understood society being composed overwhelmingly of heterosexual families with male wage earners and female carers. For those who fitted those roles (or choose to fit in with them or could see no alternative) it could and did supply significant economic, social and even cultural benefits. For those unwilling or unable to meet the demands of social democracy - e.g. the need economic participation and social conformity - the spaces left were to be cared for, cured or disciplined; it was sometimes not possible to distinguish between these alternatives.

However in this parliamentary democracy for many many people it was a vast improvement over what had gone before; as an example the emergence of the NHS general hospital from the corridors of the the workhouse was a genuine step in the right direction (even if those hospitals carried the taint of their prior use for decades to come.

As for deinstitutionalisation, it's famous proponent Enoch Powell, championed the cause on the basis of a thoroughly individualistic liberalism (economic and philosophical); his was a politics and an economics which had starved and bullied those disabled by society in the past. The fact that the mistreatment took place outside of the confines of a bricks and mortar institution didn't make it any less abusive (indeed it protected it from any sort of democratic oversight); just as the abusive treatment that people are subjected to (the poverty, the lack of support, the discrimination) are no less abusive for happening in 'the community' today.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
It was a social democracy which understood society being composed overwhelmingly of heterosexual families with male wage earners and female carers. For those who fitted those roles (or choose to fit in with them or could see no alternative) it could and did supply significant economic, social and even cultural benefits. For those unwilling or unable to meet the demands of social democracy - e.g. the need economic participation and social conformity - the spaces left were to be cared for, cured or disciplined; it was sometimes not possible to distinguish between these alternatives.

However in this parliamentary democracy for many many people it was a vast improvement over what had gone before; as an example the emergence of the NHS general hospital from the corridors of the the workhouse was a genuine step in the right direction (even if those hospitals carried the taint of their prior use for decades to come.

As for deinstitutionalisation, it's famous proponent Enoch Powell, championed the cause on the basis of a thoroughly individualistic liberalism (economic and philosophical); his was a politics and an economics which had starved and bullied those disabled by society in the past. The fact that the mistreatment took place outside of the confines of a bricks and mortar institution didn't make it any less abusive (indeed it protected it from any sort of democratic oversight); just as the abusive treatment that people are subjected to (the poverty, the lack of support, the discrimination) are no less abusive for happening in 'the community' today.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I would like to think that no one here (and on the left more generally) is a fan of Powell or thatcher, or has any illusions about their motivations for deinstitutionalisation, or their attitudes towards disabled people, or that ‘post-institutional’ society was some paradise (in any case, ‘de-institutionalisation’ is a myth - the bricks and mortar is still very much alive, albeit it is now run by private companies; and as you’ve noted, the point of ‘welfare reform’ was to enact economic-Institutionalisation in ‘the community’.

None of this makes legal/physical institutionalisation any less of a stain on humanity, nor does it make The Left’s sympathy (or even explicit and active support) for institutionalisation any less abhorrent.

I’d be interested to learn more about this ‘Democratic oversight’ of pre-thatcher Institutions.

That being said, I like this:

It was a social democracy which understood society being composed overwhelmingly of heterosexual families with male wage earners and female carers. For those who fitted those roles (or choose to fit in with them or could see no alternative) it could and did supply significant economic, social and even cultural benefits. For those unwilling or unable to meet the demands of social democracy - e.g. the need economic participation and social conformity - the spaces left were to be cared for, cured or disciplined; it was sometimes not possible to distinguish between these alternatives.
 
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I met Steve Coogan’s brother (an LA SW) at a social care thing in Manchester the other day; I ended up getting pissed with some LD Self-advocates and other bods, celebrating life and mapping out an actual strategy to address our political/social/economic struggles.

This felt far closer in spirit to what actual disabled people were doing in the 1970s (see the Mental Patients Union eg) than anything that was/will be offered by Corbyn/RLB and their hangers on (or indeed any of the other activist Left types)
 
...the lack of support, the discrimination) are no less abusive for happening in 'the community' today.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

There is some very poor care in the community, which has led to awful incidents and deaths. Acute MH provision and hospitalisation is still dreadful. But there is also some great care in ordinary housing and examples of disabled people with learning disabilities living purposeful, independent and healthy lives.

By comparison, there were almost no examples of institutionalised care that were any good whatsoever. Even putting aside the de facto denial of liberty, almost all personal effects, money and an ordinary life, long-term care institutions were horrible places where almost every aspect of care was poor. I visited quite a few in the early 80s and worked with people about to be resettled. They had been systematically denied access to straightforward primary healthcare, so for instance one man had been assumed deaf twenty years past, but examination by a community ENT specialist soon revealed his ears had cotton wool lost in them. Many people had rigid and repetitive self harming behaviours some of which soon disappeared when they left the cruelty of institutional living.

Some people still get terrible care, it’s taken a massive hit from ‘best value’ to austerity, but others get independent budgets and a home of their own, do many of the things everyone else does. None of that took place in institutions so there isn’t a simple equivalence with today’s problems.
 
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