when thatcher dies...

[In Bloom]

It's not gone goon. Of course there's danger -there's DANGER in the existence of trains, are you against trains?

Yes, I am against trains, remembering the damage done to communties by the destruction of traditional industries and everything else that carries a risk of anything bad, ever. That's exactly what I was saying.

 

[butchersapron]

The middle classes don't do anger. Well, not unless you take Waitrose away from them.

This friday, At best.

 

[danny la rouge]

The middle classes don't do anger. Well, not unless you take Waitrose away from them.

Funnily enough, I'm not really interested in them; they can form Trotskyist factions and faun after Muslim nationalists if they like.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, I am against trains, remembering the damage done to communties by the destruction of traditional industries and everything else that carries a risk of anything bad, ever. That's exactly what I was saying.

Woosh, over it goes. I actually bothered to reply to your handwringing post.

 

[Beanburger]

The mining industry was tough and dangerous but some would argue that what they got in its place - mass unemployment, poverty, depression, a lack of dignity and a near-total collapse of communities - was a lot, lot worse.

Lots of people would take a fat wage cheque and a dangerous job over a life on the dole.

 

[revol68]

The mining industry was tough and dangerous but some would argue that what they got in its place - mass unemployment, poverty, depression, a lack of dignity and a near-total collapse of communities - was a lot, lot worse.

Yeah but that's my point, the shit that has replaced it shouldn't blind us to it's own shitness, we shouldn't be looking at it in terms of a or b, as the Carlsberg people say there's probably C.

 

[danny la rouge]

Is that more relvent or is an abstract defence/attack on mining the kety issue here?

Exactly. Mining is incidental, as it was to Thatcher.

 

[Beanburger]

Funnily enough, I'm not really interested in them; they can form Trotskyist factions and faun after Muslim nationalists if they like.

I think they last expressed their revolutionary tendencies by voting New Labour.

 

[DotCommunist]

Lots of people would take a fat wage cheque and a dangerous job over a life on the dole.

these days they can do that by joining the army and fighting an unwinnable war in afghanistan

 

[danny la rouge]

I think they last expressed their revolutionary tendencies by voting New Labour.

Many of them did, yes.

 

[Beanburger]

these days they can do that by joining the army and fighting an unwinnable war in afghanistan

IIRC, the miners were paid more than squaddies. And they got to go to the pub at the end of the day. Which has to be better than eating half-cooked rice and shitting in a ditch.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Oh come on, you know what he means and there definitely is a tendency to romanticise and fixate on the past, especially around the miners.

See, I can't claim to know much about the mining communities and stuff, being from Hackney, all i DO know is that Thatcher completely and royally shafted this country as far as housing is concerned. It's fucking crazy that a council house which once would have cost 250 quid a month at most (by today's standards) now costs 1000 quid a month, because it's being rented out by some guy who's block-bought ex-council places.

I so often hear some working class Londoners say Thatcher was great as she let them buy their houses, but they don't realise the extent to which it shafted the next generation, and the knock on effect it has had.

 

[revol68]

IIRC, the miners were paid more than squaddies. And they got to go to the pub at the end of the day. Which has to be better than eating half-cooked rice and shitting in a ditch.

Aye but they didn't get to shoot guns or call in airstrikes.

 

[editor]

I strongly recommend a visit to the Big Pit mining museum on Blaneavon if you want to see the devastating impact Thatcherism had on the Welsh valleys.

Old miners take you around the pit, and you'll find precious little love for Thatcher around there.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh come on, you know what he means and there definitely is a tendency to romanticise and fixate on the past, especially around the miners.

Around past ideas of community, of course, of ideas of community based around wage-labour, even more, but we're not talking about that, we're talking about the dimisall of all forms of culture or oppostion based on on ongoing acceptance of work because mines were not nice places. It's pathetic and childish. It's nearly green anarchist bollocks in fact.

 

[machine cat]

I think they last expressed their revolutionary tendencies by voting New Labour.

Well, voting Labour isn't as bad as naming your kid Callum.

 

[editor]

IIRC, the miners were paid more than squaddies. And they got to go to the pub at the end of the day. Which has to be better than eating half-cooked rice and shitting in a ditch.

More miners died in peacetime though.

 

[Beanburger]

Aye but they didn't get to shoot guns or call in airstrikes.

Fair point.

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah but that's my point, the shit that has replaced it shouldn't blind us to it's own shitness, we shouldn't be looking at it in terms of a or b, as the Carlsberg people say there's probably C.

Who here is running a miners leisure park? An i love mining facebook group?

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

The thing about both is that they were so short-sighted. She could have devised a long term plan aimed at getting rid of mining *but* replacing it with something which also offered a future other than joblessness and decay. She could have let people buy their council houses but built more or made it illegal for one landlord to own more than one ex council house, or something. But she didn't, and it's really fucked everything over.

and let's not go into rail privatisation, which was Major's doing I guess but I'm pretty sure down to Thatcher ideology

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Aye but they didn't get to shoot guns or call in airstrikes.

They got shit on by Thatcher.

 

[revol68]

Who here is running a miners leisure park? An i love mining facebook group?

DId I say you were?

You other post made sense for half of it about the fetishing of mining communities etc but the last bit didn't, who is being Green Anarchist?

 

[editor]

Aye but they didn't get to shoot guns or call in airstrikes.

And let's not forget when the soldiers fired on striking miners and their families.

On 17 May 1869, John Young, the English manager of the nearby Leeswood Green colliery, angered his workers by announcing a pay cut. He had previously strained relationships with them by banning the use of the Welsh language underground.

Two days later, following a meeting at the pithead, the miners attacked Young before frogmarching him to the police station. Seven men were arrested and ordered to stand trial on 2 June. All were found guilty and the alleged ringleaders, Ismael Jones and John Jones, were sentenced to a month's hard labour.

A large crowd had assembled to hear the verdict, and the Chief Constable of Flintshire had arranged for policemen from all over the county, and soldiers from Chester to be present. As the convicts were being transported to the railway station the crowd grew restive and threw missiles at the officers.

The soldiers opened fire on the crowd, killing four people including one completely innocent bystander

http://www.welshpedia.co.uk/wiki/wales/index.php?title=The_Mold_Riot

 

[editor]

And..

The period between 1908 and 1914 was known as 'The Great Unrest' as Britain experienced a number of major industrial conflicts during this time. In Wales, coal miners employed at the Cambrian Combine Collieries went on strike, clashing with troops at Tonypandy in 1910, while a strike by the seamen of Cardiff in 1911 led to attacks on members of the town's Chinese community.

During the summer of 1911 a national railway strike brought chaos to many parts of the country and troops were called in to keep the trains running. On Thursday, 17 August, strikers at Llanelli held up the trains at one of the level crossings in the town.

The following day, when troops were called to clear the line, events got out of hand, the Riot Act was read, shots were fired, and two innocent men (Leonard Worsell and John John) were killed.

http://www.gtj.org.uk/en/small/item/GTJ69243/

 

[butchersapron]

DId I say you were?

You other post made sense for half of it about the fetishing of mining communities etc but the last bit didn't, who is being Green Anarchist?

You and IB by almost placing mining outside of the conditions we live in. You both hung on by your fingernails though.

(hey, i'm busy breaking workerist dogma here)

 

[ViolentPanda]

The next time there is a suicide bomb in London, I hope you lot see the death and destruction.

Been there, done that. Got the metalwork.

That way you may grow up and learn to have some compassion.

I've plenty of compassion for people who don't deserve to suffer.
I've none for the politicians that build their careers on the backs of corpses.
The problem with people like you, is that too often you haven't seen enough suffering, death and destruction (if any) to realise that if the power-mongers suffered some themselves, they might not be quite so fond of causing it.

If you are a bit too close, you may lose a limb or end up in a wheelchair for life. Enjoy the thought.

Fuck off, there's a good little sanctimonious cunt.

 

[In Bloom]

Woosh, over it goes. I actually bothered to reply to your handwringing post.

Whether you accept it or not, there's a tendancy among lefties to wank on about the struggles of the past. But then, round my way they build a memorial every time somebody stubs their toe, it gets tiresome.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

And let's not forget when the soldiers fired on striking miners and their families.

1869? More soldiers probably died firing those abominations called guns.

Lets get back to kickin' sand in the face of an old lady

 

[ViolentPanda]

In the event of war, derf, who is it permissible to kill, and in what circumstances?

I only speak for myself, but I'd have thought that targeting those that hold power would be the most effective and least costly (in terms of human suffering) targets.

 

[butchersapron]

1869? More soldiers probably died firing those abominations called guns.

Lets get back to kickin' sand in the face of an old lady

1905, 1911 -1913 too, in south wales oddly enough. Mr Churchill at the fore.