What stupid shit has Trump done today?

[Joe Reilly]

Because Trump really sees nothing wrong with smears from Russian actors he's heard tales of badly damaging an opponent he expected to lose to. And as I said above a lot voters probably agree with him. In this case it may be private sector actors but if you take a look at their background the very wealthy in Russia often do have a security background. Putin's favour and that is what enabled them to get stinking rich. If eagerly attending meetings with a lawyer connected to the very political Katsyv's dynasty and known for opposing the Magnitsky Act promising dirt on Clinton isn't soliciting I don't know what is. You can get done in national security cases for apparent intent alone. It's certainly sleazy and not a little stupid. They make it worse keeping on failing to disclose stuff. It's just Poppy Trump's MO to never to admit to anything. He's an Old Skool NYC "ratfuck" and will just dig an ever deeper hole.

At best the Trump team appears to have behaved in naive ways. The Russians are particularly toxic as there's a long list of recent offences (Crimea, East Aleppo, that airliner, backing the Iranians etc) and many senior GOP people still instinctively hate them. It would have been very stupid to collude with them or even let Russian actors create the appearance of that. I would not put it past some of the Z-list critters involved Trump has hired here. Trump clearly admires Putin. He fondly parrots RT talking points. Vastly wealthy alpha males like Putin appear to create suck up tendencies in him. I actually doubt Trump did collude but he's a chaotic manager and probably wouldn't even know what his people were at. What had to be foreseen was from day one after Trump winning Dem attack machinery was always going to be probing for weaknesses and smearing a GOP incumbent. This is what the GOP did with the Clintons and Obama. US politics isn't the the sort of milquetoast game where the "will of the people" is blandly accepted. For God's sake far more ludicrous attempts to smear the unusually proper Obama's legitimacy were what got Trump started in GOP politics.

Speaking of naive. The other logical lines of operation in the disinformation campaign do have Russian spook finger prints all over them. Again legal standards of proof are not needed in national security matters. Trump is the only senior US official now implausibly denying that the Russians meddled or rather still lamely insisting it might have been somebody else and that nobody know while US security folk say different. Tillerson in that meeting with Putin wasn't even prepared to wave through Russian denials just move on as his boss desperately wants to. The Russians have a lot of form for doing this in this in the past. The techniques used in the US election are exactly what they did elsewhere. The Americans have also meddled in foreign elections but that doesn't mean a US President should ignore the country he is meant to lead (and actually probably himself) being fucked with by an adversarial foreign power. Putin certainly would not bend over for that let alone reward such behaviour. Indeed this well constructed mess may be pay back for prior US beh

I get you don't like them. But if it was the case that it him that was approached by a third party then legally he can't be accused of soliciting as he didn't initiate the exchange. It is different from touting for information. It was offered to him. Now there may even be an element of entrapment in all of this, but if that turns out to be the case then Trump Jnr still is in the victim role.

 

[ohmyliver]

It's about the collusion. Which party initiated the collusion process isn't that important.

What they should have done was what Gore's team did when offered Bush Jr's debate answers. Or in other words refer it to the FBI. Even going to such a meeting when they knew who was going to be providing the info was at the very least stupid, because it's giving the Russians something to blackmail you over.

 

[CrabbedOne]

Why Blue States Should Exit Red America

And in the red corner a more sophisticated form of secession:

On Inc The Alt-Right Is Using Crowdfunding to Take on Liberal Silicon Valley

Pax Dickinson wants to fund the revolution. Not a blood-in-the-streets revolution, but one where hardcore right-wingers can economically secede from the parts of society they vehemently dislike. "We need parallel everything. I do not want to ever have to spend a single dollar at a non-movement business," Dickinson, the former CTO of Business Insider and general startup veteran, declared on Twitter.

Dickinson believes the money to build that parallel everything will come from crowdfunding. His new project, called CounterFund, is a lot like Patreon, a service that allows users to make monthly pledges to creators -- only with an unorthodox super-PAC grafted on. The way it works is that influencers -- Twitter personalities, podcasters, YouTubers, and so on -- join the platform, and then members of their audience donate like they would on Patreon.

Eighty percent of the money goes directly to the influencers. Ten percent is devoted to running CounterFund, and then the remaining 10 percent is spent by the top influencers as they see fit. What exactly that will be is a little hazy, but they could theoretically do anything -- commission a long narrative article, throw a benefit for an organization they like, or pay for a CounterFund member's healthcare.
...
"It's a schism," Dickinson told Inc. "We're becoming even more like two Americas than we were." Dickinson's ultimate aim is to wrest control away from his ideological opponents by building right-wing-friendly alternatives to their services and making the community more self-sufficient. "There's a cry for more organization amongst the alt-right movement," he explained. "They want something more than just these atomized people all doing their individual things."

Cites Hezbollah as model of a successful state within a state. Some Lebanese might point to all the uncollected garbage stinking out Beirut but no matter.

Not really an even fight. It's usually easier to destroy and divide than collaborate and build. As it says on the yellow banner this is a faith based thing: Then surely the party of God are they that shall be triumphant.

 

[Joe Reilly]

This is after months and months and denials that there was no meetings or discussions in any way. Now after being shown to be liars about these meetings, we're just supposed to take their word on it.



The fact that she was in the country after visa issues is a bloody big red flag, and she was literally introduced as a Russian Government Lawyer by Trump's "acquaintance"



Because it's been fairly conclusively proven the man is a complete moron.

There have been months and months of accusations of 'collusion in hacking the American election' and not a shred of evidence has been produced in any way. That she was introduced as a Government Lawyer is inaccurate. She is a private citizen. The email also refers to the "crown prosecutor general". Which sounds like another made up title when you think about it. And that you know, or think you know, about possible visa issues is also 'big bloody red flag' alright, just not in the way you think. Finally, if he is the moron you claim him to be, how much more badly does that reflect on the ever so clever opponents he defeated.

 

[Joe Reilly]

It's about the collusion. Which party initiated the collusion process isn't that important.

In legal circles who initiates the alleged collusion is always regarded as highly significant. Often the difference between being found guilty and an acquittal.

 

[ohmyliver]

Got any examples of that?

 

[CrabbedOne]

I get you don't like them. But if it was the case that it him that was approached by a third party then legally he can't be accused of soliciting as he didn't initiate the exchange. It is different from touting for information. It was offered to him. Now there may even be an element of entrapment in all of this, but if that turns out to be the case then he it is Trump Jnr who is in the victim role.

It's really not a matter of liking them. This isn't a game of football or a talent contest. The Russian are just another actor with their own interests like the Iranians or Turks. Those interests mostly don't coincide with US interests. The Russians are usually quite frank about that.

It really doesn't matter if he didn't make the first approach if it gets treated as a national security matter. He appears to have gone to a meeting with knowledge that this was available information and kept quiet about it. Though it seems likely he told pops about it. As that campaign trail outburst followed. Trump just can't keep his big mouth closed.

Similar things have happened before. The Gore campaign for instance received some inside information on Bush from anonymous sources. What they did to cover themselves was immediately contact the FBI. The Reagan administration got into some hot water about similar shenanigans with anonymously provided info on a rival campaign. In both these cases there was no hint that hostile foreign power might be involved. There were also rumours that Reagan colluded with the Iranians to Carter's disadvantage though these appear to have been false. Reagan later would get into considerable trouble over Iran-Contra. Here we have an ongoing investigation into Russian intelligence activities and team Trump hasn't come forward with the details of this meeting. Rather they've insisted nothing happened while incident after incident pops up. It's been leaked probably by someone in West Wing who has got it in for Don Jnr and Kushner. This is putting the Trump family and Presidency in increasing jeopardy.

 

[1%er]

There have been months and months of accusations of 'collusion in hacking the American election' and not a shred of evidence has been produced in any way. That she was introduced as a Government Lawyer is inaccurate. She is a private citizen. The email also refers to the "crown prosecutor general". Which sounds like another made up title when you think about it. And that you know, or think you know, about possible visa issues is also 'big bloody red flag' alright, just not in the way you think. Finally, if he is the moron you claim him to be, how much more badly does that reflect on the ever so clever opponents he defeated.

It should also be remembered that Trump Jr received the emails in June of 2016 and Trump senior only became the republican nomination in July of that year. No laws have been broken or you'd have wall to wall lawyers telling us all exactly what law had been broken.

Now a message to the Brits who can't seem to understand that the people of the USA voted for the person who is now their President. Take a look at your own situation for fuck sake! You have Theresa "Merkel of maidenhead" May as your Prime Minister, who has had to go cap in hand to the DUP to form a government. She has teamed up with politicos whose policies and ideas come from the 18th century. Fuck me before you know it evolution will be banned for being taught in schools and your kids being taught about creationism. One of their recently retired MPs William McCrea called for Libya-type air-strikes against Dundalk, Drogheda, Crossmaglen and Carrickmore. One of their current MPs Sammy Wilson believes mothers who breast-feed in public are exhibitionists.

Get your own house in order before you go running around the world trying to change the democratically elected President of a foreign power, you are not an empire anymore, the yanks kicked you out years ago, now you toe their line.

 

[DotCommunist]

oh grow up, nobody here supports or longs for empire. Some of us even think its demise is a good good thing you know ! Go and rail on the daily mail boards, they really miss the 'good old days'

Fuck me before you know it evolution will be banned for being taught in schools and your kids being taught about creationism

lol as if, the DUP don't care about influencing UK wide policy they just want ze money and the fiefdom of NI

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I always wondered why someone who thinks of himself as the ultimate moral authority would hitch his wagon to Trump. I've suspected that he was doing that because he figured that Trump would get impeached, leaving him as President. Here's some fuel for that thought:

Pence creates PAC ahead of 2018, 2020 elections

 

[phillm]

"Let there be no doubt: it’s turning into the political equivalent of Defcon 1, the highest level of nuclear alert, for the Trump administration.....

Even if he manages to retain his post as president, he will be one of the walking wounded, watching helplessly as his administration succumbs to a cancer that he cannot eradicate. At the pinnacle of power, Trump, once the pre-eminent brand salesman of the modern era, is witnessing the decline and fall of his own personal empire. The crash is bound to send shock waves not only around America but the world."

Trump’s son gives his father’s critics the smoking gun they were looking for | Coffee House

 

[phillm]

I always wondered why someone who thinks of himself as the ultimate moral authority would hitch his wagon to Trump. I've suspected that he was doing that because he figured that Trump would get impeached, leaving him as President. Here's some fuel for that thought:

Pence creates PAC ahead of 2018, 2020 elections

He's also schmoozing the 'great and the good' over at the VP house. Looks like the silent coup is in full swing.

At Private Dinners, Pence Quietly Courts Big Donors and Corporate Executives

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

He's also schmoozing the 'great and the good' over at the VP house. Looks like the silent coup is in full swing.

At Private Dinners, Pence Quietly Courts Big Donors and Corporate Executives

I wouldn't be shocked to learn that he's the source (or one of the sources) of the leaks within the administration.

 

[phillm]

I wouldn't be shocked to learn that he's the source (or one of the sources) of the leaks within the administration.

It's always the quiet ones you have to watch out for ....

 

[CRI]

="1%er, post: 15147606, member: 48151"]It should also be remembered that Trump Jr received the emails in June of 2016 and Trump senior only became the republican nomination in July of that year. No laws have been broken or you'd have wall to wall lawyers telling us all exactly what law had been broken.

Now a message to the Brits who can't seem to understand that the people of the USA voted for the person who is now their President. Take a look at your own situation for fuck sake! You have Theresa "Merkel of maidenhead" May as your Prime Minister, who has had to go cap in hand to the DUP to form a government. She has teamed up with politicos whose policies and ideas come from the 18th century. Fuck me before you know it evolution will be banned for being taught in schools and your kids being taught about creationism. One of their recently retired MPs William McCrea called for Libya-type air-strikes against Dundalk, Drogheda, Crossmaglen and Carrickmore. One of their current MPs Sammy Wilson believes mothers who breast-feed in public are exhibitionists.

Get your own house in order before you go running around the world trying to change the democratically elected President of a foreign power, you are not an empire anymore, the yanks kicked you out years ago, now you toe their line.

In case you didn't notice, the subject of this thread is "What stupid shit has Trump done today,", not reflections on the government in the UK. Textbook derail when in a tight corner, bud.

Few here would disagree with your appraisal of the DUP, so little point trying to pick a fight over that one.

Some people who contribute here are American, were American, or have relatives or other connections there. Some Canadians, some from other places. Not all "Brits"

"The people of the USA" did not vote for Trump. Plenty "people of the USA" didn't vote at all. Around 3m more of those who did vote didn't choose trump. The electoral college isn't the same as "the people of the USA" voting. And there more voting irregularities in key swing states than you can shake a stick at, not to mention evidence of Russian "influence" in the elections, but hey, knock yourself out with your little illusions.

 

[TomUS]

NYT/CNN/WP cannot be critiqued from the left?

Of course they can. But the American corporate media are not liberal. That's Fox News talk.

 

[8den]

There have been months and months of accusations of 'collusion in hacking the American election' and not a shred of evidence has been produced in any way.

You mean the ongoing FBI investigation?

That she was introduced as a Government Lawyer is inaccurate. She is a private citizen. The email also refers to the "crown prosecutor general". Which sounds like another made up title when you think about it.

When you think about it all titles are made up

What the Heck Is a Russian 'Crown Prosecutor'?

This title however belongs to a Putin loyalist.

Finally, if he is the moron you claim him to be, how much more badly does that reflect on the ever so clever opponents he defeated.

He lost by 3 million votes, he won the presidency through republican voter suppression of minorities and with the help of Russian interference. If I was you I'd stop bragging about his "win".

 

[CrabbedOne]

It should also be remembered that Trump Jr received the emails in June of 2016 and Trump senior only became the republican nomination in July of that year. No laws have been broken or you'd have wall to wall lawyers telling us all exactly what law had been broken.

Now a message to the Brits who can't seem to understand that the people of the USA voted for the person who is now their President. Take a look at your own situation for fuck sake! You have Theresa "Merkel of maidenhead" May as your Prime Minister, who has had to go cap in hand to the DUP to form a government. She has teamed up with politicos whose policies and ideas come from the 18th century. Fuck me before you know it evolution will be banned for being taught in schools and your kids being taught about creationism. One of their recently retired MPs William McCrea called for Libya-type air-strikes against Dundalk, Drogheda, Crossmaglen and Carrickmore. One of their current MPs Sammy Wilson believes mothers who breast-feed in public are exhibitionists.

Get your own house in order before you go running around the world trying to change the democratically elected President of a foreign power, you are not an empire anymore, the yanks kicked you out years ago, now you toe their line.

I think you may be missing how stuck in a past century the US is.

There's nothing really special about the DUP's socially conservative policies rooted in Evangelical belief in US terms. Mike Pence would find much in common here. You could find much the same New Earth Creationism and opposition to abortion in the currently pretty loopy Texas GOP. In fact that lot look even barmier. They do threaten to shoot fellow politicians or call in ICE on demonstrators and these people are actually armed. They've arranged it so if you wave your concealed carry permit you can dodge security checks at the state legislator. The other similarity is they defend the entitlements of the community that votes for them and eternally paint the other side as living the high life on welfare while playing on fears of being ethnically swamped. On that side you could twin Lubbock Country with County Antrim.

But there's a big difference. Economically the DUP are probably to the left of Bernie Sanders as they most often vote with the UK Labour party at Westminster in that area. With another bunch of nationalist knuckle draggers they preside over an economy in N.I. which has proportionally one of the largest public sectors in Europe and they intend to keep that way. And they just dragged down a huge wedge of tax payer pork to benefit their constituents who actually will riot if they don't get a piece of it. That most eager Federal pork hound former CA governor Reagan would have recognised as damn shrewd politics while it might well have The Freedom Caucus sniffing Big Government socialism run amok.

The DUP actually peddle an authentic sort insanely patriotic, nationalist, divisive populist politics the sprayed orange faker Trump pretends to. His main obsessions in practice seems to be tax cuts for the really wealthy, lining his own pockets and a sulky return to mercantilist trade policies. Which one is living in a past century is rather obvious. Trump is a robber baron who wants to restore the gilded age. Though it well may end up being more a Gelded age as he seems simply be a bit of a rube incapable of doing a decent deal without getting his pockets dipped. That is something you can't say about the DUP leaders. They certainly understand the sleekit art of the deal.

 

[Joe Reilly]

Of course they can. But the American corporate media are not liberal. That's Fox News talk.

They tend to adopt socially liberal positions. On the other hand if they're all right wing how then is it also right wing to criticize them?

 

[Joe Reilly]

He lost by 3 million votes, he won the presidency through republican voter suppression of minorities and with the help of Russian interference. If I was you I'd stop bragging about his "win".

Yeah, well as far as voter suppression goes the Democrats might have wished that Republicans suppressed more efficiently seeing as how a large chunk of the Latino vote went to Trump.

 

[gosub]

You do know that Trump Jr published the emails himself, a day after that NYT story, right? Look at Page 4

View attachment 111186

Actually before the times published the actual emails... An effort to head them off at the pass, only it adds more fuel to the fire.

John Oliver is right this is stupid water gate. Deep throat would be redundant with a presidency that shouldn't be trusted with a crayon

 

[Joe Reilly]

Got any examples of that?

Say your out an about and you are approached by a lady of the night. As it is she who is soliciting. You are free to go on your way.

On the other hand if you were the one doing the approaching (and she turns out be an undercover cop) it is likely to be you who ends up being sanctioned.

 

[gosub]

What will it take to get Trump out, if this isn't it? It's unbelievable, really. What do the Republicans make of this?

100 days + had republicans switching from its nonsense to full Frank and immediate disclosure

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Actually before the times published the actual emails... An effort to head them off at the pass, only it adds more fuel to the fire.

NYT clearly had at least some of the emails, as they were alluding to the contents. Good job Trump Jr decided to confirm their authenticity, eh?

I wonder who leaked them. Kuchner and Manafort were both cc'd in, and only one of those two is still inside the tent. It is a puzzle.

 

[8den]

Yeah, well as far as voter suppression goes the Democrats might have wished that Republicans suppressed more efficiently seeing as how a large chunk of the Latino vote went to Trump.

A) I wouldn't boast about voter suppression, even to make a non-sequitur.

B) How is 29% a "large chunk?"

In record numbers, Latinos voted overwhelmingly against Trump. We did the research.

 

[8den]

Say your out an about and you are approached by a lady of the night. As it is she who is soliciting. You are free to go on your way.

On the other hand if you were the one doing the approaching (and she turns out be an undercover cop) it is likely to be you who ends up being sanctioned.

And if suppose if you weren't actively looking for one but you were approached by a prostitute offering sex, and you said yes "I love it" and then agreed to meet her, at a later date, in your Dad's hotel with two of his closest confidants, what would you call that?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

And if suppose if you weren't actively looking for one but you were approached by a prostitute offering sex, and you said yes "I love it" and then agreed to meet her, at a later date, in your Dad's hotel with two of his closest confidants, what would you call that?

kinky?

 

[8den]

kinky?

Very.

Also, this comes off the back of strenuous denials from all three of you that you'd never even met a prostitute.

Does it prove collusion? Nope. But conspiracy (obstruct an election, foreign donation, even potentially treason) it does prove. And those are Federal crimes.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

headline on the london evening standard today

"Trump Junior - ' My dad knows nothing' "

that's hardly news, is it?

 

[chandlerp]

Congressman Sherman Introduces Article of Impeachment: Obstruction of Justice