what no annual poppy bunfight thread?

[Lord Camomile]

Are we in danger of reaching peak poppy?

 

[J Ed]

South Africa...

And in a different manner Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

Argentina and Brazil got a long way towards getting nuclear weapons under their respective dictatorships, once democracy returned to those countries they abandoned it.

 

[J Ed]

Are we in danger of reaching peak poppy?

Nah, I reckon the current hysteria will run and run for years

 

[Idris2002]

Nah, I reckon the current hysteria will run and run for years

The 'peak bullshit' limit was reached and breached quite some time ago, mind.

 

[DotCommunist]

that tatoo of jeremy corbyns face wasn't wearing a poppy

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Are we in danger of reaching peak poppy?

It serves a particular purpose - normalising constant warfare - so as long as that purpose remains, this will remain. And we have the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 to come soon. There'll be a torrent of bullshit that year.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Both sides had nukes then.

 

[Idris2002]

Both sides had nukes then.

North Vietnam had nukes?

 

[DotCommunist]

charlie certainly didn't


he thinks the NVA were soviet proxies

 

[Sasaferrato]

It serves a particular purpose - normalising constant warfare - so as long as that purpose remains, this will remain. And we have the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 to come soon. There'll be a torrent of bullshit that year.

There will indeed.

 

[sleaterkinney]

charlie certainly didn't


he thinks the NVA were soviet proxies

Chinese also.

 

[Artaxerxes]

It serves a particular purpose - normalising constant warfare - so as long as that purpose remains, this will remain. And we have the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 to come soon. There'll be a torrent of bullshit that year.

NEVER AGAIN!

*bombs Syria*

 

[rekil]

Chinese also.

What?

 

[sleaterkinney]

What?

?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

It serves a particular purpose - normalising constant warfare - so as long as that purpose remains, this will remain. And we have the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 to come soon. There'll be a torrent of bullshit that year.

I'm pretty sure some bullshit will be ringed out of the 100th anniversary of the Somme next year too. I think that'll really boil my piss because it's worth remembering, if anything screams 'pointless slaughter' it's that, instead it'll be the usual chest prodding from the very class who ordered those men to take an early morning stroll into machine gun fire [emoji35]

 

[weltweit]

11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month!

 

[Bakunin]

I'm pretty sure some bullshit will be ringed out of the 100th anniversary of the Somme next year too. I think that'll really boil my piss because it's worth remembering, if anything screams 'pointless slaughter' it's that, instead it'll be the usual chest prodding from the very class who ordered those men to take an early morning stroll into machine gun fire [emoji35]

Similar insanity happened even on Armistice Day itself:

The tale of the last American World War I Battle – That took place for a bath

 

[coley]

That enduring exhortation to wear the poppy "with pride"

FFS. Regret maybe, possibly sorrow...but pride?

Sorrow mainly, but with a degree of pride assuredly, esp those who fought in WW2, Iraq, Afghanistan? Blame The politicians,operation banner? What would your alternative have been?

 

[coley]

...and on it goes...

Worth a read:-
MY NAME IS LEGION – The British Legion and the Control of Remembrance » VFP UK

There, you may have a point.

 

[brogdale]

Sorrow mainly, but with a degree of pride assuredly, esp those who fought in WW2, Iraq, Afghanistan? Blame The politicians,operation banner? What would your alternative have been?

Seriously, have a look at the meaning of the word, then see if you really think it appropriate.

 

[coley]

Sorry I'm not up on which death machines are currently in or out of service, either way it's not really appropriate. World wars maybe, just maybe off the table. Instead we have instant vapourisation to look forward to.

Good point, much more attractive then death camps, Burma railways etc the repression of large parts of Eastern Europe ect.

 

[coley]

Seriously, have a look at the meaning of the word, then see if you really think it appropriate.

Pride or sorrow?

 

[brogdale]

Pride or sorrow?

Former.

 

[coley]

I think anyone on the allied side in WW2 can feel pride in what they achieved, ditto OP Banner, but As in all wars/conflicts there are the conflicting versions of the winners/losers and afterwards the revisionists versions.
Personally. My opinion is to blame the politicians not the PBI.
And it's always difficult to have a discussion between those who have experienced armed conflict and those who try (with the best of interests) to discuss it in the abstract.

 

[brogdale]

I think anyone on the allied side in WW2 can feel pride in what they achieved, ditto OP Banner, but As in all wars/conflicts there are the conflicting versions of the winners/losers and afterwards the revisionists versions.
Personally. My opinion is to blame the politicians not the PBI.
And it's always difficult to have a discussion between those who have experienced armed conflict and those who try (with the best of interests) to discuss it in the abstract.

For clarity...no, I have no experience of armed conflict, but I thought we were discussing the appropriate attitude to effect when wearing a poppy? The symbolism of remembrance and attitudes to it are essentially abstract notions, so we should be able to discuss these matters as equals?
My Grandfather fought in WW2, from Sword to Eindhoven, and would never have expressed 'pride' about what he was compelled to undertake. He was certainly never proud that so many of his pals died.

 

[coley]

Fair point, but if push ever comes to shove? It's one thing to bugger around in localised 'proxy wars' but how many on here personally remember the sphincter tightening days of the Cuban missile crisis?

 

[coley]

For clarity...no, I have no experience of armed conflict, but I thought we were discussing the appropriate attitude to effect when wearing a poppy? The symbolism of remembrance and attitudes to it are essentially abstract notions, so we should be able to discuss these matters as equals?
My Grandfather fought in WW2, from Sword to Eindhoven, and would never have expressed 'pride' about what he was compelled to undertake. He was certainly never proud that so many of his pals died.

It's late and I appreciate your reasoned response, I am going to have a look at my own grandfathers letters in order to give a valid reply.
However, from memory, One grandfather captured at Dunkirk the other,North African campaign, Italy and Northern Europe. Mebbes "pride" was the wrong word? But what word would you use in describing your small part in ridding humanity of Hitler and to a large part, fascism in the last 70 years?

 

[brogdale]

It's late and I appreciate your reasoned response, I am going to have a look at my own grandfathers letters in order to give a valid reply.
However, from memory, One grandfather captured at Dunkirk the other,North African campaign, Italy and Northern Europe. Mebbes "pride" was the wrong word? But what word would you use in describing your small part in ridding humanity of Hitler and to a large part, fascism in the last 70 years?

I think it's entirely normal, understandable and right for folk to engage in acts of remembrance for those killed in war, but my problem with the BL model is the quasi-militarised, nationalistic focus on ex-service personnel. I do think that regret, sorrow and straightforward remembering are feelings one might associate with a display/symbol of remembrance, along with an acceptance that wars kill more civilians than combatants.

It's interesting how VfP(UK) have very visibly re-instated the "Never Again" exhortation previously associated with organised acts of remembrance. It is shameful that such a sentiment no longer has a place in the state's orchestration of national observance.

 

[dylanredefined]

I think it's entirely normal, understandable and right for folk to engage in acts of remembrance for those killed in war, but my problem with the BL model is the quasi-militarised, nationalistic focus on ex-service personnel. I do think that regret, sorrow and straightforward remembering are feelings one might associate with a display/symbol of remembrance, along with an acceptance that wars kill more civilians than combatants.

It's interesting how VfP(UK) have very visibly re-instated the "Never Again" exhortation previously associated with organised acts of remembrance. It is shameful that such a sentiment no longer has a place in the state's orchestration of national observance.

View attachment 79574

Probably because you can't say it with a straight face

 

[brogdale]

Probably because you can't say it with a straight face

They not 'you'?