Weasel Straw strikes again (Pakistani men in Britain see white girls as "easy meat")

[pk]

6.5%

Not proved to be bollocks at all. Read the thread - 65% tallies with other statistics. I accept that it could be 6.5% but this is by no means conclusive.

Norway

How is this bollocks? By you deciding that it's bollocks - even though you've not even glanced at the statistics?
Are you saying Hanne Kristin Rohde is an out and out liar, yet still retains her post as a senior police officer?

No victims were Muslim

No victims were Pakistani muslim. Evidence appears to suggest that a tiny minority may have been Bangladeshi muslim but that is hardly the point is it?

Authors of research you are citing saying 'no racial/religious element'

Name one.

I could go on

You could go on doing whatever you can to disrupt the thread because it's not going your way, yes.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I'm going to leave you there. I've reread my post and I think it is very clear what I meant by it. I can only apologise if you don't agree, but I don't think I can make it any clearer.

Well it isn't.

That occasional Bangladeshi might point to an alternative view, though, namely that they are not going for fellow Pakistanis, rather than avoiding fellow Muslims. That they have indeed identified an 'other' to whom they grant less than full human status, but that this other is not just non-Muslims.

On what basis do you claim that these nonces - incidentally not actually exclusively of a British Pakistani background - have defined and are targeting an 'other'?

 

[pk]

I'm going to leave you there. I've reread my post and I think it is very clear what I meant by it. I can only apologise if you don't agree, but I don't think I can make it any clearer.

Like I said, better off ignoring him - he's being willfully blind to all but his own opinions now. I'm supposedly a racist and he's, y'know, right on comrade...

 

[pk]

these nonces - incidentally not actually exclusively of a British Pakistani background

Fucking LOL - what was it - 56 in total - 3 were white BNP members and the remaining 53 were of Pakistani origin.

94.6 percent.

LOL, as if your pedantry will change anything. All you're doing is trolling the thread because you don't like the topic of discussion.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Not proved to be bollocks at all. Read the thread - 65% tallies with other statistics. I accept that it could be 6.5% but this is by no means conclusive.

65% is conclusively wrong.

How is this bollocks? By you deciding that it's bollocks - even though you've not even glanced at the statistics?
Are you saying Hanne Kristin Rohde is an out and out liar, yet still retains her post as a senior police officer?

You cited stats that have appeared for every single year since 2001. Do you suppose that by some stroke of fate Oslo has seen exactly the same number of rapes every year since 2001?

No victims were Pakistani muslim. Evidence appears to suggest that a tiny minority may have been Bangladeshi muslim but that is hardly the point is it?

Yes it is. You have continually claimed that the actions of these young men can be traced back to Islam, and that this was, and I quote, 'sexual jihad' against 'infidels'.

Name one.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/jan/06/child-sex-trafficking-racial-stereotyping

'But Brayley and Cockbaine, whose six-month study was cited as evidence, said they were worried that limited data had been extended "to characterise an entire crime type, in particular of race and gender". They challenged claims that white girls were deliberately sought out by offenders. "Though the majority … were white so too were the majority of local inhabitants." Comparing the percentage of white people in the areas with black and ethnic minorities, their data, they said, showed "black and ethnic minority girls over-represented among the victims".

They added: "This challenges the view that white girls are sought out by offenders, suggesting instead that convenience and accessibility may be the prime drivers for those looking for new victims."'

You could go on doing whatever you can to disrupt the thread because it's not going your way, yes.

Lol

 

[Proper Tidy]

Fucking LOL - what was it - 56 in total - 3 were white BNP members and the remaining 53 were of Pakistani origin.

94.6 percent.

LOL, as if your pedantry will change anything. All you're doing is trolling the thread because you don't like the topic of discussion.

Knowing the meaning of 'exclusive' isn't pedantry you fantasist fuckwit

 

[dylans]

Yes it is. You have continually claimed that the actions of these young men can be traced back to Islam, and that this was, and I quote, 'sexual jihad' against 'infidels'.

Yes. This is my concern with PKs argument. The claim that has been made is far more than that the victims were simply not from their immediate community. The claim is that "Islam" has justified and encouraged this behaviour and this is what I am questioning. I can understand LBJ post

That occasional Bangladeshi might point to an alternative view, though, namely that they are not going for fellow Pakistanis, rather than avoiding fellow Muslims. That they have indeed identified an 'other' to whom they grant less than full human status, but that this other is not just non-Muslims.

and see this as a possibility. But this is a far cry from PKs claim that these actions are specific to and a consequence of "Islam" (whatever that means)

 

[pk]

65% is conclusively wrong.

How do you know? Have you actually checked the stats for yourself? Do you even know what you're looking for?

You cited stats that have appeared for every single year since 2001.

That's a lie to start with - I also cited stats that were supplied by eric jarvis.

Do you suppose that by some stroke of fate Oslo has seen exactly the same number of rapes every year since 2001?

LOL, you're now going to show me where I showed exactly the same number of rapes occurring, yes? No, of course you're not. And you're never going to even listen to what Oslo's head of department Hanne Kristen Rohde stated - on camera - as well as published in the newspapers. It doesn't fit your agenda of blind denial.

You have continually claimed that the actions of these young men can be traced back to Islam, and that this was, and I quote, 'sexual jihad' against 'infidels'.

I have suggested that it could be considered as a contributory factor, given the clear links to the origins of the faith, and I've also cited it as a reason why certain community leaders may have turned a blind eye and perhaps just put it down to normal behaviour, it was you that seized upon it as some sort of proof, and have jumped up and down hysterically ever since.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/jan/06/child-sex-trafficking-racial-stereotyping

'But Brayley and Cockbaine, whose six-month study was cited as evidence, said they were worried that limited data had been extended "to characterise an entire crime type, in particular of race and gender". They challenged claims that white girls were deliberately sought out by offenders. "Though the majority … were white so too were the majority of local inhabitants." Comparing the percentage of white people in the areas with black and ethnic minorities, their data, they said, showed "black and ethnic minority girls over-represented among the victims".

But NOT Pakistani muslim girls. You omitted this bit. Conveniently.

They added: "This challenges the view that white girls are sought out by offenders, suggesting instead that convenience and accessibility may be the prime drivers for those looking for new victims."'

"Suggesting" being the operative word here.

How telling that you cite something "suggested" from these Jill Dando researchers and claim it as hard evidence.

Yet you fail to apply such strict criteria to opinions that do not align with your preconception.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I don't see any merit in LBJ's post - what evidence is there to claim that they have identified an 'other' on national/ethnic/cultural grounds? All the evidence points towards nonces targeting vulnerable kids, nothing suggests any sort of profiling beyond their vulnerability.

 

[Proper Tidy]

How do you know? Have you actually checked the stats for yourself? Do you even know what you're looking for?



That's a lie to start with - I also cited stats that were supplied by eric jarvis.



LOL, you're now going to show me where I showed exactly the same number of rapes occurring, yes? No, of course you're not. And you're never going to even listen to what Oslo's head of department Hanne Kristen Rohde stated - on camera - as well as published in the newspapers. It doesn't fit your agenda of blind denial.



I have suggested that it could be considered as a contributory factor, given the clear links to the origins of the faith, and I've also cited it as a reason why certain community leaders may have turned a blind eye and perhaps just put it down to normal behaviour, it was you that seized upon it as some sort of proof, and have jumped up and down hysterically ever since.



But NOT Pakistani muslim girls. You omitted this bit. Conveniently.



"Suggesting" being the operative word here.

How telling that you cite something "suggested" from these Jill Dando researchers and claim it as hard evidence.

Yet you fail to apply such strict criteria to opinions that do not align with your preconception.

You're a fucking loon. All of this has been proven time and again on this thread. You're arguing black is white.

Stats are only ever going to 'suggest' something you massive dick. You should stick to stalking, it's the only thing you're any good at.

 

[dylans]

But NOT Pakistani muslim girls. You omitted this bit. Conveniently.

But don't you see. The admission that Muslim girls could have been targeted at all, fatally undermines your argument that these attacks were driven by some kind of "sexual jihad" or in any way driven by a belief that they were following some kind of twisted "Islamic" instruction.

 

[dylans]

I don't see any merit in LBJ's post - what evidence is there to claim that they have identified an 'other' on national/ethnic/cultural grounds? All the evidence points towards nonces targeting vulnerable kids, nothing suggests any sort of profiling beyond their vulnerability.

I don't know but it seems reasonable to me that people try not to shit on their own doorstep

 

[pk]

Yes. This is my concern with PKs argument. The claim that has been made is far more than that the victims were simply not from their immediate community. The claim is that "Islam" has justified and encouraged this behaviour and this is what I am questioning.

The victims of the rapes have claimed that they were racially abused - "white trash" "prostitute" "worthless like a dog" - and this certainly tallies with anecdotal evidence to suggest the rapists had a far lower opinion of their victims, as they were not Pakistani muslim girls and therefore fair game for abuse.

I would say a large element of this is down to the upbringing, where western women are seen by islamic men and women as prostitutes, white trash, unclean...

 

[Proper Tidy]

I don't know but it seems reasonable to me that people try not to shit on their own doorstep

Absolutely not the same thing as LBJ asserted though

 

[Proper Tidy]

The victims of the rapes have claimed that they were racially abused - "white trash" "prostitute" "worthless like a dog" - and this certainly tallies with anecdotal evidence to suggest the rapists had a far lower opinion of their victims, as they were not Pakistani muslim girls and therefore fair game for abuse.

I would say a large element of this is down to the upbringing, where western women are seen by islamic men and women as prostitutes, white trash, unclean...

Abuse of that nature is always going to be involved, whether the nonces are muslim, hindu, sikh or fucking jehovas. To rape/abuse somebody is to dehumanise them. Fucks sake.

 

[pk]

You're a fucking loon. All of this has been proven time and again on this thread. You're arguing black is white.

Where has the Oslo cop been proven to be incorrect?? Prove it!
Go on - why not stop all the chest puffing and name calling and do something useful!

Stats are only ever going to 'suggest' something you massive dick.

Well the stats "suggest" an overwhelming amount of Pakistani men are raping non-Pakistani children and racially abusing them.

You should stick to stalking, it's the only thing you're any good at.

"stalking" LOL, that old chestnut. That shows just how desperate you are to get one over on me, some 5 year old board war that you lost.

 

[Thomsy]

This idea that there is some kind of sexual jihad motive behind these criminal actions ....is a racist argument

I work in Egypt researching relations between the majority Muslim and minority Christian communities.

Among Muslims, the term used for the winning, taking or marrying of a Christian girl by a Muslim man is “fat’h”. The term means “a conquest” or “an opening” or “a victory” (for Allah). It is the same term that is used in Islamic discourse for the conquest and subjugation of non-Muslim states by Islamic arms – i.e. the conquest of the ‘non-Muslim’ by Jihad.

This is not simply a coincidence of nomenclature. The sectarian and supremacist connotation in both the military and the sexual usages are explicit.

Conquest by Islamic arms is extolled because it leaves the subject population open for (or defenceless to) conversion – and thus serves to expand the dominion of Islam.

The taking of a Christian paramour or wife is likewise viewed in Islamic discourse and Islamic law as an opportunity to increase the rate of birth of Muslim offspring. (In Islamic law and culture, it is of course obligatory that the offspring of relationship between a Muslim male and a non-Muslim female be raised Muslim. Christian men are forbidden, on pain of death, to marry Muslim women.)

 

[Thomsy]

The idea that there is something in Islamic culture that leads these gangs to seek out and abuse specifically non Muslims ... is a racist argument

1) Islam denies the legal equality of women with men. It defines them – before and above all else – in terms of their sexual-reproductive roles. In Islam (eg the Quran), the fundamental roles of women are as bed-mates and mothers.

2) Islam explicitly denies non-Muslims (kuffar, dhimma) legal or political or cultural equality with Muslims. In the Islamic doctrine of dhimmitude, non-Muslims are (at best) second-class. Non-Muslims do not have or deserve equality of rights or treatment. They are ‘subject’ to Islam and to Muslims.

Can you do the maths?

 

[dylans]

pk;The victims of the rapes have claimed that they were racially abused - "white trash" "prostitute" "worthless like a dog" - and this certainly tallies with anecdotal evidence to suggest the rapists had a far lower opinion of their victims, as they were not Pakistani muslim girls and therefore fair game for abuse.

Rapist in misogynistic abuse shock! This only shows that these guys had a low opinion of their victims not that they percieved their actions as being somehow "Isllamic". This is my problem with your claim. It is a huge assumption and one that I see no evidence for.

I would say a large element of this is down to the upbringing, where western women are seen by islamic men and women as prostitutes, white trash, unclean..

Sorry but that is pure conjecture and without any evidential basis what-so ever. I am sure most British Muslims are as shocked by these crimes as anyone.

 

[pk]

Abuse of that nature is always going to be involved, whether the nonces are muslim, hindu, sikh or fucking jehovas. To rape/abuse somebody is to dehumanise them. Fucks sake.

Right - so the Catholic priests were calling their victims "fenian bastards" whilst raping them, right?

You're so full of shit it's actually hilarious.

What next? - "they were asking for it, they were out late and were wearing skirts in a muslim area". ??

 

[pk]

Rapist in misogynistic abuse shock! This only shows that these guys had a low opinion of their victims not that they percieved their actions as being somehow "Islamic". This is my problem with your claim. It is a huge assumption and one that I see no evidence for.

It is an assumption backed up by several senior muslim figures in the UK, several senior policemen, former home secretary Jack Straw, and plenty of anecdotal evidence. These rapists saw these girls as worthless for reasons that ran far deeper than your run of the mill misogyny. In my opinion.

I am sure most British Muslims are as shocked by these crimes as anyone.

I would like to think so too! However it's clear this is not a new problem, and it seems an investigation with such conclusions was perhaps inevitable after years of turning a blind eye by people terrified of causing offence to certain members of an oversensitive and oppressive and misogynist ideology.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Where has the Oslo cop been proven to be incorrect?? Prove it!
Go on - why not stop all the chest puffing and name calling and do something useful!

I already have. You ignored it. Your stats are a lie. They have been reproduced for every year since 2001. They are a racist trope, you thick little fuck. And now all you can do is cling on to your one copper. Sad.

Well the stats "suggest" an overwhelming amount of Pakistani men are raping non-Pakistani children and racially abusing them.

No they don't.

"stalking" LOL, that old chestnut. That shows just how desperate you are to get one over on me, some 5 year old board war that you lost.

Look at my join date you knob.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I work in Egypt researching relations between the majority Muslim and minority Christian communities.

Among Muslims, the term used for the winning, taking or marrying of a Christian girl by a Muslim man is “fat’h”. The term means “a conquest” or “an opening” or “a victory” (for Allah). It is the same term that is used in Islamic discourse for the conquest and subjugation of non-Muslim states by Islamic arms – i.e. the conquest of the ‘non-Muslim’ by Jihad.

This is not simply a coincidence of nomenclature. The sectarian and supremacist connotation in both the military and the sexual usages are explicit.

Conquest by Islamic arms is extolled because it leaves the subject population open for (or defenceless to) conversion – and thus serves to expand the dominion of Islam.

The taking of a Christian paramour or wife is likewise viewed in Islamic discourse and Islamic law as an opportunity to increase the rate of birth of Muslim offspring. (In Islamic law and culture, it is of cause obligatory that the offspring of relationship between a Muslim male and a non-Muslim female be raised Muslim. Christian men are forbidden, on pain of death, to marry Muslim women.)

But we're not talking about Egypt, are we? What is it with people, do they think muslims are made on an industrial estate to factory specifications? Like Borg?

They targeted muslim kids as well as non-muslim kids, so any 'conversion' motivation is clearly bollocks. They're nonces.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Those are interesting posts, Thomsy.

I think it is important not to fall into the trap of thinking that there is such a thing as 'Islam' beyond what is practised by Muslims. The book they use as the basis for their moral and political views is not a straightforward one, and it contains a hell of a lot of ammunition for those who, for instance, wish to subjugate women. And it contains a hell of a lot of stuff that encourages the idea that those who are not Muslims are in some way inferior. There is a lot to detest in Islam, and I don't see any wishy-washy CofE-style equivalent being practised in many places. I don't see any 'gay Muslim' movements, for instance, or 'women-Imman' movements.

As I said earlier, I don't think anyone should feel reticent in coming forward and condemning such belief systems in a robust and direct manner.

 

[Lock&Light]

Look at my join date you knob.

Are you really such a knob, eh... knoob.

 

[pk]

I already have. You ignored it.

No you haven't. You are a liar. You have not proven the statements made by Hanne Kristen Rohde to be incorrect.

Your stats are a lie. They have been reproduced for every year since 2001.

They aren't my stats, and you still haven't grasped that fact.

They are a racist trope, you thick little fuck. And now all you can do is cling on to your one copper. Sad.

That "one copper" is the head of Oslo Rape Robbery and Vice. You want me to believe YOU over HER, after seeing with my own eyes your inability to tell the truth? Bwahahahaha!!!!

No they don't.

So what's 53 out of 56 mean to you then, you thick little fuck?

Look at my join date you knob.

So why are you calling me a stalker then you knob? Oh I know - you were "watcyn" for years over on MATB and only joined here when that collapsed. You fucking liar - you ARE trying to stir up a 5 year old spat! How pathetic.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Right - so the Catholic priests were calling their victims "fenian bastards" whilst raping them, right?

You're so full of shit it's actually hilarious.

Oh my days. Mos sexual assaults etc will involve dehumanising, humiliating insults. Obviously.

What next? - "they were asking for it, they were out late and were wearing skirts in a muslim area". ??

Fuck off you noxious cunt

 

[pk]

The book they use as the basis for their moral and political views is not a straightforward one, and it contains a hell of a lot of ammunition for those who, for instance, wish to subjugate women. And it contains a hell of a lot of stuff that encourages the idea that those who are not Muslims are in some way inferior.

Precisely. A mitigating factor in these rapes that unfortunately most here are just too blind to see, or scared to admit to seeing.

 

[Proper Tidy]

So why are you calling me a stalker then you knob?

Because you are.

 

[pk]

Oh my days. Mos sexual assaults etc will involve dehumanising, humiliating insults. Obviously.

But not racist insults, according to you.