Weasel Straw strikes again (Pakistani men in Britain see white girls as "easy meat")

[Proper Tidy]

You flounced off long ago - you've proved you have nothing to say other than pathetic namecalling. This topic is beyond you, clearly.

Carry on with the cheap shots from the sidelines if it makes you feel better, but it only make you look like an impotent cunt.

Like the little kid in the playground who only puts the boot in to the bigger kid when he's being safely held down. That's your style though, eh?

If by flounced you mean done things like gone to bed, gone to work, ate, then yes, I have flounced. You've made a right dick out of yourself, everything you've cited has been shown to be bollocks or paper thin, and you've ended up resorting to c&p'ing bits of the Koran that you've found on far right websites. And you think anybody needs to snipe from the sidelines? You're a fucking joke lad.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Of course it's flipping it round. You suggested yourself there may be obvious reasons why perps are not grooming within their own communities, it doesn't change the fact that they aren't, and the victims are disproportionately white non-muslim girls. The occasional Bangladeshi child notwithstanding.

That occasional Bangladeshi might point to an alternative view, though, namely that they are not going for fellow Pakistanis, rather than avoiding fellow Muslims. That they have indeed identified an 'other' to whom they grant less than full human status, but that this other is not just non-Muslims.

 

[Proper Tidy]

That occasional Bangladeshi might point to an alternative view, though, namely that they are not going for fellow Pakistanis, rather than avoiding fellow Muslims. That they have indeed identified an 'other' to whom they grant less than full human status, but that this other is not just non-Muslims.

Where's the actual evidence that these nonces are specifically not targeting british pakistani girls?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't know. You'd better ask one of the people who've been saying this is what's been happening. Read the thread, perhaps.

 

[Superdupastupor]

What does any of that have to do with the question in hand?

I forget. I got prompted to type something ...

I'm not sure there is anything definitive to say about the phenomenon maybe . but people will use this story for all sorts of reasons and stances

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Sorry, that was aimed at dylans.

 

[dylans]

Of course it's flipping it round. You suggested yourself there may be obvious reasons why perps are not grooming within their own communities, it doesn't change the fact that they aren't, and the victims are disproportionately white non-muslim girls. The occasional Bangladeshi child notwithstanding.

Then I am a little confused as to what you are saying. I thought that central to your argument was the idea that it was specifically non Muslim girls who are being targeted and that they are being targeted because of some kind of Jihadist perspective that see's non Muslims as being legitimate targets for abuse because and only because they are not Muslim.

If this is not now your view then fair enough but saying that they are not targeting within their immediate communities is not the same as saying they are deliberately avoiding Muslim girls and deliberately targeting non Muslims and that there is a specifically religious motivation behind their decisions.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I don't know. You'd better ask one of the people who've been saying this is what's been happening. Read the thread, perhaps.

I have read the thread, and nothing conclusive has been posted. Yet you see fit to work off the assertion that it does, in fact, happen.

That they have indeed identified an 'other' to whom they grant less than full human status, but that this other is not just non-Muslims.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If this is not now your view then fair enough but saying that they are not targeting within their immediate communities is not the same as saying they are deliberately avoiding Muslim girls and deliberately targeting non Muslims and that there is a specifically religious motivation behind their decisions.

It's not, no. But if there were evidence that there was a religious motivation, you'd have to take that evidence seriously. I would think it at least possible that some of these men frame their decision in this way.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I have read the thread, and nothing conclusive has been posted. Yet you see fit to work off the assertion that it does, in fact, happen.

It might help if you didn't part-quote me out of context.

 

[pk]

It might help if you didn't part-quote me out of context.

Oh he's very good at doing that. Ignore him, it would make for a better debate.

 

[pk]

It's not, no. But if there were evidence that there was a religious motivation, you'd have to take that evidence seriously. I would think it at least possible that some of these men frame their decision in this way.

The evidence, both anecdotal, and also the evidence from the research cited, and of course the explicit statements from the senior muslim figures supporting Jack Straw suggests that they do frame their decision that way. That white non-muslim girls are easy meat.

 

[dylans]

It's not, no. But if there were evidence that there was a religious motivation, you'd have to take that evidence seriously. I would think it at least possible that some of these men frame their decision in this way.

Yes you would. But I don't see any evidence. Any more than there was evidence that West Indian men were predominantly involved in mugging in the 1970's. In that case a similar moral panic rose which in retrospect can only be explained in the context of 1970s racism. I think there are similarities with this issue. I think we are witnessing a moral panic that can only be understood in the wider context of growing anti Muslim racism.
(which I hope also answers your question about what my previous post had to do with the subject matter-. I think this is a moral panic driven by Islamophobia and racism against a religious minority)

 

[pk]

Then I am a little confused as to what you are saying. I thought that central to your argument was the idea that it was specifically non Muslim girls who are being targeted and that they are being targeted because of some kind of Jihadist perspective that see's non Muslims as being legitimate targets for abuse because and only because they are not Muslim.

I don't see these rapists as strictly adhering to islamic beliefs, but I do see a pattern of power that echoes the many tales of victory from the inception of islam and the perception that islam should be applied the world over. They are rapists, it is a power thing when all is said and done, but the evidence of racial abuse of the victims goes some way to further speculation that these rapists saw themselves as some sort of sexual jihadists. I'm sure the cocaine helped fuel such a narcissistic viewpoint too.

If this is not now your view then fair enough but saying that they are not targeting within their immediate communities is not the same as saying they are deliberately avoiding Muslim girls and deliberately targeting non Muslims and that there is a specifically religious motivation behind their decisions.

It appears that the Bengali muslims targeted were only a tiny minority of what amounted to over 100 victims of the Derby gang alone.

I do think there is a cultural motivation behind their decisions.

They believe that non-muslims are fair game, worthless, and their opinion of Bengalis is not much better.

They are not targeting Pakistani children for rape. That is the bottom line here.

 

[Proper Tidy]

It might help if you didn't part-quote me out of context.

I'd already quoted it in full once, and you responded by telling me to 'read the thread'. But okay.

That occasional Bangladeshi might point to an alternative view, though, namely that they are not going for fellow Pakistanis, rather than avoiding fellow Muslims. That they have indeed identified an 'other' to whom they grant less than full human status, but that this other is not just non-Muslims.

'That occasional Bangladeshi' is more likely to point towards nonces noncing vulnerable children regardless of their cultural or ethnic background. Or it might mean they are engaged specifically in some sort of politically motivated sexual ethnic cleansing. Which do you think more likely? Perhaps they do a census before raping?

 

[pk]

I forget. I got prompted to type something ...

I'm not sure there is anything definitive to say about the phenomenon maybe . but people will use this story for all sorts of reasons and stances

They will, which is why it is imperative to sort the tabloid bullshit from what appears to be born out of factual evidence as soon as possible, and certainly to accept the findings without regard to whom might be offended.

If I'm the devils advocate for lazy reactionary conclusions, then it's alarming how many of the anti-EDL and anti-BNP campaigners who post here have very little factual weaponry to counteract such conclusions.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

wtf are you on about? @ PT

 

[pk]

Perhaps they do a census before raping?

If they do they'll have done more research than you have bothered doing.

 

[pk]

I think this is a moral panic driven by Islamophobia and racism against a religious minority

I think much of the overall panic you describe can easily be dismissed as such. But in this story - no.

I think the racism stems from the rapists, deliberately avoiding children from their own communities and racially abusing victims that they do manage to ensnare.

 

[Proper Tidy]

wtf are you on about? @ PT

LBJ, you extrapolated from the fact some of the victims were Bangladeshi muslims that it was racially motivated. On what basis? Surely it is more likely to suggest that they targeted who they could. I've already phrased it simply enough.

 

[Proper Tidy]

If they do they'll have done more research than you have bothered doing.

Ace. How many of your 'sources' have proved to have been bollocks now pk? Five? Six?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Where did I say it was racially motivated?
Clue: I didn't.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Where did I say it was racially motivated?
Clue: I didn't.

Here. It's the 4th time I've quoted it now LBJ. Perhaps some bolding will help.

That occasional Bangladeshi might point to an alternative view, though, namely that they are not going for fellow Pakistanis, rather than avoiding fellow Muslims. That they have indeed identified an 'other' to whom they grant less than full human status, but that this other is not just non-Muslims.

 

[pk]

Ace. How many of your 'sources' have proved to have been bollocks now pk? Five? Six?

Why don't you point out which sources you believe I have used that are "bollocks" ?

I don't think you have any interest whatsoever in this issue, I think you're just being the token hall monitor calling "racist!" at anyone who appears to be wavering from the rigid line of political correctness.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that it's attitudes like yours, imposing your transparent principles on other people, that led to these children being victimized for far longer than they should have been.

You're so stiff it's as if someone has printed out the equality laws, rolled them up, and rammed them right up your arse.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Why don't you point out which sources you believe I have used that are "bollocks" ?

6.5%

Norway

No victims were Muslim

Authors of research you are citing saying 'no racial/religious element'

I could go on

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Is 'pakistani' a race, now? Of course one of the messier aspects of this is the fact that, as dylans has explained very clearly elsewhere, the only real factor that binds Pakistanis together as a nation is Islam.

 

[Lock&Light]

You're so stiff it's as if someone has printed out the equality laws, rolled them up, and rammed them right up your arse.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Is 'pakistani' a race, now? Of course one of the messier aspects of this is the fact that, as dylans has explained very clearly elsewhere, the only real factor that binds Pakistanis together as a nation is Islam.

Oh for fuck's sake. Would it help if I said ethnically motivated instead? Culturally motivated? Just fucking answer what you meant.

And why your assertion that 'the only real factor that binds Pakistanis together as a nation is Islam' has anything to do with the behaviour of some British Pakistani men is beyond me.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm going to leave you there. I've reread my post and I think it is very clear what I meant by it. I can only apologise if you don't agree, but I don't think I can make it any clearer.

 

[Lock&Light]

............is beyond me.

So much is.