Weasel Straw strikes again (Pakistani men in Britain see white girls as "easy meat")

[One_Stop_Shop]

Because you are a modestly dressed female

How do you know this? You're not a stalker are you? It would seem to go hand in hand with your sexism. I still need to know what community you are from, they are clearly giving you some very dodgy views and need to be held to account.

 

[pk]

What? Your grasp of history leaves a lot to be desired.

I am of the opinion the if a full consensus were taken, most would opt to eradicate the problem of predatory pedophilia via surcical means, to put it mildly. Could be wrong.

So the majority have no obligations to police their ethnic/religious/cultural 'communities', but minorities do? The lads who do this would no more listen to 'Muslim elders' (ffs) than they would to anybody else. Will all the white nominally anglican/CoE criminals listen if only the Archbishop of Canterbury told them crime was bad? I'm not sure if you're really naive or just unpleasant.

Your argument is flawed as the majority of UK indigenous people don't consider religious doctrine as the be all and end all of life's principles in the way islamic rules are strictly laid out in the Pakistani communities, that some now say don't exist.

 

[Treacle Toes]

You don't apear to see it as much of a problem at all.

I do see a problem, I don't though see the need to make it about something it isn't.

Because you are a modestly dressed female with darker skin and thus not the usual target of the cultural anti-infidel abuse from the type of men we are discussing.

An attempt at a diplomatic response, yet very telling about how you think.

1. I am not Muslim.
2. Two of the victims identify the same way as I do.
3. You have no clue how I dress...and by implication your statement suggests that these young girls were targeted because they dress less than 'modestly'. Good going.

 

[pk]

Wait a minute we're all over the shop. Just a minute ago they were going for sikhs and hindus. Now women with darker skin aren't the usual target for anti-infidel mob. I'm confused.

Not if there's a risk they may be muslim girls, with brothers and fathers that would kill them outright.

 

[Citizen66]

I think they just target vulnerable girls. And they're more likely to find non-muslim girls in shopping malls without their parents than muslim ones.

 

[pk]

As well as pointing out that the vast majority of muslim elders already condemn this behaviour why do you think that the muslim lads, who obviously don't follow the religion in any meaningful way and had never attended the mosque in all the time they were under surveillance would be influenced by them?

I think the notion that infidel girls = whores goes largely unchallenged, by certain people, and such a notion is in fact reinforced by extremists. Sexual jihad.

 

[pk]

I think they just target vulnerable girls. And they're more likely to find non-muslim girls in shopping malls without their parents than muslim ones.

Maybe it is that simple. I'm merely being honest about my take on it, prepared to be proved wrong and also prepared to be lambasted for opinions that I simply do not hold, as is the way of urban75.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I think they just target vulnerable girls. And they're more likely to find non-muslim girls in shopping malls without their parents than muslim ones.

Stop being so sensible.... Posts like this do nothing to fuel the 'panic' many would like.

 

[Citizen66]

Rapists tend to seek out the vulnerable. Perhaps they do prefer white girls for this kind of thing. Especially ones without fathers or brothers. Maybe they fear being killed if they mess around with their own sisters? Or maybe some of them do mess around with their own sisters. We don't have a complete picture based upon a newspaper article.

 

[IC3D]

I think they just target vulnerable girls. And they're more likely to find non-muslim girls in shopping malls without their parents than muslim ones.

By that logic wouldn't they have stiff competition from all the White, Black, Sikh, Hindu grooming gangs hoovering up the slutty 12year olds?

 

[Proper Tidy]

I am of the opinion the if a full consensus were taken, most would opt to eradicate the problem of predatory pedophilia via surcical means, to put it mildly. Could be wrong.

Whereas you think Pakistani Britons would be broadly permissive about noncing?

Your argument is flawed as the majority of UK indigenous people don't consider religious doctrine as the be all and end all of life's principles in the way islamic rules are strictly laid out in the Pakistani communities, that some now say don't exist.

More blind assertion. Do you believe these men are devout muslims? Not just nominally muslim because of their ethnic and cultural background? Do me a favour. They're as likely to be secular as the white men who do exactly the same, prey on the vulnerable.

 

[Proper Tidy]

By that logic wouldn't they have stiff competition from all the White, Black, Sikh, Hindu grooming gangs hoovering up the slutty 12year olds?

Ever been to Blackpool?

 

[Citizen66]

By that logic wouldn't they have stiff competition from all the White, Black, Sikh, Hindu grooming gangs hoovering up the slutty 12year olds?

Well I neither think that our streets are filled with paedophile rings, or that Muslims have a monopoly on that particular pastime.

 

[IC3D]

Well I neither think that our streets are filled with paedophile rings, nor do I think Muslims have a monopoly on that particular pastime.

In the conext of these places they do and it would be right to look into the causes of it. And its not Muslims its Pakistanis from very poor backrounds.

 

[pk]

How do you know this? You're not a stalker are you? It would seem to go hand in hand with your sexism.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[IC3D]

Ever been to Blackpool?

Only for rape.

 

[ericjarvis]

I can think of many threads here which have focused on sex abuse by Catholic Priests, teachers, friends, relatives, all sorts. Why should the abuse and rapes carried out by men of a Pakistani origin be ignored in your view?

It shouldn't. It hasn't been. What I am objecting to is the contention that this is specifically a problem related to the British Pakistani community. It isn't. In the case at the root of this one of the perpetrators is white and some of the victims are Muslim. Street grooming of vulnerable young women is something done by gangs from quite a range of cultures. The objectification and abuse of women who are seen as from other backgrounds is something that is done by ignorant neanderthals from just about every cultural group in the UK.

Every attempt in this thread to justify this as a specifically Pakistani problem has completely failed to hold water. So it is clearly a wider problem. My objection is that focussing on a completely false perception of the problem is not going to lead to effective solutions.

However I realise that the intention may not be to find any solutions. It may be more a case of posters wanting to prove their virtue by showing how viciously they would like to treat people they can safely label as evil, thereby assuming they will be counted as virtuous rather than shown to be somewhat bloodthirsty and determined to find fault as far away from themselves as possible.

If there was any evidence of systematic suppression of information by Mosques to protect the perpetrators of these abuses then it would be the same situation as with the Catholic Church. So far all I've seen is evidence that pretty much nobody at all is going to do anything but ensure these vicious bastards face the full weight of the law.

However there is a discussion to be had about the real issues. The resurgence of violently abusive sexism, and the existence of gangs preying sexually on vulnerable girls. Provided we actually discuss the issue rather than take part in a festival of islamophobia promoted by those who don't want to face the real issues and their dupes.

 

[pk]

Stop being so sensible.... Posts like this do nothing to fuel the 'panic' many would like.

What "panic" ?

It's about 12 year old girls being groomed, and certain people turning a blind eye because they are scared of being labelled racist or islamophobic.

It may have escaped you attention but as we speak the UK forces are involved along with the US in bombing Pakistani villages.

Hardly a great leap of imagination to suggest that certain people of Pakistani heritage might be angry enough to see children as fair targets in a war.

Historically speaking and certainly when looking at specific islamic texts it is not unusual to use rape as a weapon of vengeance, especially when such sentiments are espoused by passionate clerics who see the infidel as crusaders and all the middle-ages shit that goes along with it.

 

[Citizen66]

In the conext of these places they do and it would be right to look into the causes of it. And its not Muslims its Pakistanis from very poor backrounds.

Poor backgrounds? Have you seen the kinds of cars they use as part of the grooming process?

I'm not from a poor background yet I never had access to a BM or a merc.

I've also read about Iraqis up to this kind of behaviour. It isn't just restricted to Pakistani Muslims unfortunately.

 

[Proper Tidy]

In the conext of these places they do and it would be right to look into the causes of it. And its not Muslims its Pakistanis from very poor backrounds.

So if we accept your premise - and I'm still unconvinced - then it clearly has nothing to do with their faith (or lack of). Perhaps it is like every other social problem - ie has a social cause? Perhaps it is deprivation, isolation from wider society caused primarily by geo-political events beyond the control of yer average muslim, poverty, living in a society that is misogynistic to its core (and I'm not talking about Pakistan)? Just a thought.

What about all those suicides in Bridgend last year? Must mean the Welsh are depressives, they get it from the hymns and the chapels.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Do you believe these men are devout muslims? Not just nominally muslim because of their ethnic and cultural background? Do me a favour. They're as likely to be secular as the white men who do exactly the same, prey on the vulnerable.

Exactly.

 

[IC3D]

Poor backgrounds? Have you seen the kinds of cars they use as part of the grooming process?

I'm not from a poor background yet I never had access to a BM or a merc.

I've also read about Iraqis up to this kind of behaviour. It isn't just restricted to Pakistani Muslims unfortunately.

I've known people in hostels own beamers its all image they proberly live with parents.

 

[pk]

What I am objecting to is the contention that this is specifically a problem related to the British Pakistani community. It isn't. In the case at the root of this one of the perpetrators is white and some of the victims are Muslim.

And your evidence for the bit in bold is?

Street grooming of vulnerable young women is something done by gangs from quite a range of cultures. The objectification and abuse of women who are seen as from other backgrounds is something that is done by ignorant neanderthals from just about every cultural group in the UK.

I don't recall any stories of UK white men grooming young muslim girls or chinese or any other cultural group for vicious gang rape.

Every attempt in this thread to justify this as a specifically Pakistani problem has completely failed to hold water.

Apart from all those muslim leaders who spoke up to applaud Mr Straw's comments that is...

However I realise that the intention may not be to find any solutions. It may be more a case of posters wanting to prove their virtue by showing how viciously they would like to treat people they can safely label as evil, thereby assuming they will be counted as virtuous rather than shown to be somewhat bloodthirsty and determined to find fault as far away from themselves as possible.

Yeah, so I'm typing all this to show how virtuous I am? Wow. Great insight. Shame it's wrong.

If there was any evidence of systematic suppression of information by Mosques to protect the perpetrators of these abuses then it would be the same situation as with the Catholic Church. So far all I've seen is evidence that pretty much nobody at all is going to do anything but ensure these vicious bastards face the full weight of the law.

There is evidence that muslim communities like to keep their oddballs quiet and not rock the boat. I gave a prime example earlier in the thread with regard to the Swedish suicide bomber, thrown out of the mosque 3 years ago for his abhorrent beliefs, yet the security services were not informed.

However there is a discussion to be had about the real issues. The resurgence of violently abusive sexism, and the existence of gangs preying sexually on vulnerable girls. Provided we actually discuss the issue rather than take part in a festival of islamophobia promoted by those who don't want to face the real issues and their dupes.

Had there genuinely been muslim victims in this case - then we would not be having this discussion. I've seen no evidence to support the fact that the victims of this gang were anything but vulnerable non-muslim children.

 

[Citizen66]

I've known people in hostels own beamers its all image they proberly live with parents.

Right. So people from a poor background have parents with higher range cars?

 

[pk]

Poor backgrounds? Have you seen the kinds of cars they use as part of the grooming process?

I'm not from a poor background yet I never had access to a BM or a merc.

I've also read about Iraqis up to this kind of behaviour. It isn't just restricted to Pakistani Muslims unfortunately.

I'm sure it isn't. That Iraqi lads are doing it too kinda lends more weight to the idea that there may possibly be an issue with islamic views on western women then, don't you think?

 

[_angel_]

festival of islamophobia

Can i get a ticket for that?

 

[Proper Tidy]

I'm sure it isn't. That Iraqi lads are doing it too kinda lends more weight to the idea that there may possibly be an issue with islamic views on western women then, don't you think?

Muslims have been in the UK for a long time. Why do you think this issue didn't raise its head before, if its because of what is written in the koran?

 

[Citizen66]

I'm sure it isn't. That Iraqi lads are doing it too kinda lends more weight to the idea that there may possibly be an issue with islamic views on western women then, don't you think?

Possibly. Or if they're culturally conditioned that women shouldn't leave the house unless fully robed then encounter women that don't follow those codes. But then they're not the only male rapists on the block, are they?

 

[IC3D]

So if we accept your premise - and I'm still unconvinced - then it clearly has nothing to do with their faith (or lack of). Perhaps it is like every other social problem - ie has a social cause? Perhaps it is deprivation, isolation from wider society caused primarily by geo-political events beyond the control of yer average muslim, poverty, living in a society that is misogynistic to its core (and I'm not talking about Pakistan)? Just a thought.

Thats what I'm getting at and it is significant that the specific political interpration of their religion tied up in this conflict is popular with this demographic.

What about all those suicides in Bridgend last year? Must mean the Welsh are depressives, they get it from the hymns and the chapels.

I've been to valleys there was only like 20 minutes of daylight.

 

[pk]

Muslims have been in the UK for a long time. Why do you think this issue didn't raise its head before, if its because of what is written in the koran?

I don't think the levels of unemployment and drug abuse/dealing have been seen before, which is of course a major factor.

We haven't seen young muslim men radicalised to the point of strapping suicide belts before.

Also, I do think this is an issue that has been going on for a lot longer than people are prepared to accept, only now we have Jack Straw addressing it and all of a sudden senior muslim figures welcoming his comments and agreeing that there is a specific problem.