Weasel Straw strikes again (Pakistani men in Britain see white girls as "easy meat")

[pk]

What actual solutions do people see for this?

Excellent, about time.

This thread is part of the solution. Dilute the nastiness and develop a heightened sense of understanding.

What is acceptable within the bounds of personal faith and law, and what is not.

To discuss and debate ideas is healthy, to lay down absolute laws is to be a fascist.

Nobody here of all places apart from the obvious ogres will be wanting to reject the well-established fruits of Islamic culture in the UK.

The good stuff that makes our nation the safe haven for those who need it.

Yet our traditional and beloved hospitality must never be compromised, and nor must it be abused.

I'm bowing out of this thread now, made my point, in danger of over-egging the cake.

Been nice though. Surprisingly civil.

 

[smokedout]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8240202/Cover-up-claims-over-Asian-sex-gangs.html

out of 56 people done for gang rape of young girls 2 were white!
definitly a problem

But in 17 court cases since 1997 where groups of men were prosecuted for grooming 11 to 16 year old girls on the street, 53 of the 56 people found guilty were Asian, 50 of them Muslim, while just three were white,

so marginally over one case a year, in contrast to two women a week being murdered by current or former partners

not to trivialise it but hardly an epidemic is it

 

[tbaldwin]

I'm not claiming that there are groups of Pakistani men do such things. A group has been banged up for it. The wider issue that has been raised is that the value placed on white girls by some muslim men may be far lower than that of muslim women and how to address that with a large muslim population in a mainly white, non-muslim, liberal country.

The best way to do it in my view....is to be totally honest about the problems and also make it really clear that those who prey on the weak and vulnerable will face punishments that fit their crimes.
It doesnt do muslims any good in this country when white liberals are trying to sweep issues under the carpet. The majority of muslims in the UK will have varying degrees of revulsion about scumbag rapists, whatever their background. And have to say from what i know child abuse is also far from rare in muslim families, its just better hidden than in white families.

 

[pk]

so marginally over one case a year, in contrast to two women a week being murdered by current or former partners

not to trivialise it but hardly an epidemic is it

umm... how did you break those figures down??

 

[pk]

The best way to do it in my view....is to be totally honest about the problems and also make it really clear that those who prey on the weak and vulnerable will face punishments that fit their crimes.
It doesnt do muslims any good in this country when white liberals are trying to sweep issues under the carpet. The majority of muslims in the UK will have varying degrees of revulsion about scumbag rapists, whatever their background. And have to say from what i know child abuse is also far from rare in muslim families, its just better hidden than in white families.

And let's not forget, these vodka swilling cocaine sniffing perverts were hardly acting as good muslims.

OK thanks bye!

 

[tbaldwin]

so marginally over one case a year, in contrast to two women a week being murdered by current or former partners

not to trivialise it but hardly an epidemic is it

Its a fair point......It sort of backs up my point about treating people like possesions....And that is not something just muslims or religious nuts do..
But there are degrees of possesiveness from the right on U75 poster who went barmy about somebody touching his girlfriends arm to people in danger of losing their lives because of affairs..
More open and frank discussion is needed of all of it. But gang rape and muslim men treating white women as slags is worth discussing specifically and is a real problem..
But do not let other mysoginists off the hook either...and as for the BNP they are hardly whiter than white.....yeah i know.

 

[smokedout]

umm... how did you break those figures down??

17 court cases in 13 years, was pretty clear from the piece

 

[IC3D]

17 court cases in 13 years, was pretty clear from the piece

People in the community these lads were from said this was a problem I don't see what your point is and all it does is enable rapists.

 

[smokedout]

dont be silly

 

[rover07]

People in the community these lads were from said this was a problem I don't see what your point is and all it does is enable rapists.

What people? Do you have a link?

 

[rover07]

I think part of the problem in this, is distinguishing between criminal gangs and groups of lads out on the town looking to chat up young women.

 

[DrRingDing]

If we're doing constructive....

I think the big difference is in some of the old industrial towns you have ended up with some neighbourhoods overwhelmingly dominated by one race and/or religion.

This creates the mindset of 'Asian community', 'Muslim community' and ultimately 'white community'.

This creates 'in' and 'out' groups in the minds of the different residents. Stereotypes emerge and become ingrained.

By dividing society along these lines takes the heat off the ruling and political class.

You can look into why different demographics have been lumped together. Often in the past by petite bourgeois councils, although now this is much better regulated.

 

[IC3D]

dont be silly

I'm serious why are you trying to trivialise it?

What people? Do you have a link?

Some bod on Newsnight. Said he'd voiced the issue with Jack Straw years ago and it was know about amongst the community.

 

[smokedout]

I think part of the problem in this, is distinguishing between criminal gangs and groups of lads out on the town looking to chat up young women.

well as i said, there will be some sections of the white community horrified that their teenage girls hanging out with asian men and possibly taking taking drugs just as their will be some sections of the muslim community appalled at these white sluts seducing and corrupting good muslims

its hard, if not impossible to know how much of a part these attitudes play in the current hysteria, but the stats speak for themselves,even taking into account difficulties of securing conviction this would seem to be a very rare occurence compared with other sexual offences

 

[smokedout]

I'm serious why are you trying to trivialise it?

you're being silly, is pointing out that stranger abduction of children is very rare compared to other kinds of child abuse enabling child murderers, or is it just an honest assessment of the facts

 

[IC3D]

you're being silly, is pointing out that stranger abduction of children is very rare compared to other kinds of child abuse enabling child murderers, or is it just an honest assessment of the facts

Well if you like facts so much you should know the the amount of rapes that go to prosecution is tiny proportion. (it is a fact take my word for it )

 

[smokedout]

Well if you like facts so much you should know the the amount of rapes that go to prosecution is tiny proportion. (it is a fact take my word for it )

yes, i mentioned that, even so just over one case a year does not indicate that this is a new, growing or hugely significant problem compared to other sexual offences

that doesnt mean it shouldnt be discussed, just discussed with a sense of proportion thats all

 

[pk]

just over one case a year does not indicate that this is a new, growing or hugely significant problem

The manner in which this problem is addressed is important.

And I believe in the eyes of many it is a new, growing and hugely significant problem.

---

Ann Cryer, a former Labour MP for Keighley, she had been made aware of a problem in her constituency in 2003 after she was approached by about six mothers who said their daughters were being groomed for sex by Pakistani men.

She said she tried to intercede with the community by asking a councillor to speak to Muslim elders, but they said it was not their affair.

"Instead of drawing it to a conclusion then, it's drifted on, so it seems now every year we're getting more cases of very young, sometimes 12-year-old girls being abused by these gangs of men. I wish it would stop, I wish it would go away," she said.

 

[smokedout]

more opportunism from a politician is hardly that credible

this is a story thats got it all - muslims,grooming,drugs, but in reality there just doesnt seem much to it, its all a bit omg some asians abuse white women, which shit as that is, it's also pretty fucking obvious to anyone that it goes on

it should of course be addressed and discussed as with all other cases of abuse, but so far from straw, to dickhead murray to the right wing press and to liberals and imans, it appears everyone is approaching this with an agenda when its all a bit of tabloid hype concerning one recent case and a fairly rare variation on a particular type of crime carried out by young men of all ethnicities

 

[tbaldwin]

I think writing Ann Cryer off as an opportunist MP is just lazy smoked out. You have made some OK posts on this thread though......Ann Cryer has long spoken out against stuff like this in a responsible and principled way. Its important to talk about issues like this and try to positively address the issues. The people who will see an opportunity in an issue like this are hypocritical twats like the BNP...Its important that they can not claim the Left ignore it.

 

[rover07]

more opportunism from a politician is hardly that credible

this is a story thats got it all - muslims,grooming,drugs, but in reality there just doesnt seem much to it, its all a bit omg some asians abuse white women, which shit as that is, it's also pretty fucking obvious to anyone that it goes on

it should of course be addressed and discussed as with all other cases of abuse, but so far from straw, to dickhead murray to the right wing press and to liberals and imans, it appears everyone is approaching this with an agenda when its all a bit of tabloid hype concerning one recent case and a fairly rare variation on a particular type of crime carried out by young men of all ethnicities

Well said. That just about sums it up.

 

[rover07]

I think writing Ann Cryer off as an opportunist MP is just lazy smoked out. You have made some OK posts on this thread though......Ann Cryer has long spoken out against stuff like this in a responsible and principled way. Its important to talk about issues like this and try to positively address the issues. The people who will see an opportunity in an issue like this are hypocritical twats like the BNP...Its important that they can not claim the Left ignore it.

That was one incident in 2003. 8 years ago. Has she raised any concerns since?

 

[smokedout]

I think writing Ann Cryer off as an opportunist MP is just lazy smoked out. You have made some OK posts on this thread though......Ann Cryer has long spoken out against stuff like this in a responsible and principled way.

hmm, she has, but it also didnt do her any harm at all, you kinda have to know the relationship between keighley and bradford to get why

 

[tbaldwin]

hmm, she has, but it also didnt do her any harm at all, you kinda have to know the relationship between keighley and bradford to get why

It might not have done her any harm. But it didnt help her either, which is why i disagree with calling her opportunist. I think even MPs are capable of real concern.
And yeah i know you will know more about the area than me tbf.... Got a friend in Bradford though, who i visited last year..

 

[ViolentPanda]

I can't even be arsed to find out what YVHY or whatever Judaic crap you posted. Probably like you won't type god but type g-d instead you obscurantic loon.

You're a bit fixated about Jews, ern.
Not surprising, like. You middle-class wankers have always been deeply prejudiced against anyone who isn't just like you, you grasping materialistic fucks.

 

[ViolentPanda]

its yaweh or YWHW early hebrew for god something to do with modern lingustics you can read about it on wikkipedia if your bored

YHWH. The language has no vowels, unless you choose to insert them, in which case it's YAHWEH, and is one of the many names the extremely vengeful deity of Judaism is known by.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What do you mean by 'cultural heritage'? Is this another liberal codeword for something?

What do you think "Jewishness" is? It doesn't reside merely in following Judaism, as some twats seem to believe, that's for sure.

 

[pk]

....

 

[YouSir]

thread's dead baby, thread's dead

Nah, at least another ten pages of unrelated arguing left to go.

Although I'm off to bed.

 

[ericjarvis]

The point is why should we start talking about whole pakistani/white/jewish communities when in all cases it is very small minority.

Lazy labelling. It's easier to single out a smallish group that a label can be applied to and then blame the label than it is to look for solutions to widespread problems amongst a large and disparate set of people. If the problem can be described as relating to young "Pakistani" men then it's easier to find simplistic explanations than if the problem is looked at in terms of "young men". If the problem can be defined as happening in "the Muslim community" then it's easier to avoid any responsibility than if it's defined as being a general problem.

The problem is men treating women as nothing more than sex objects. It doesn't matter who is doing it. It's just plain wrong whether it's a gang of Pakistani youths in the north of England, a gang of Eastern European pimps in the south of England, or a university rugby club in the midlands. Unless the basic attitude is the primary target of criticism it lets too many people off the hook.