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US House passes Obama's key healthcare reform

butchersapron said:
So are the democrats if that's your argument. Seriously, go and do at least 15 minutes research.
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But not to the same extent anyway let us all know how the republicans voted as your such a keen researcher and really clever and all that stuff...
 
The ensuing fury also appeared to kill off any possibility of a public option which could have been damaging to the insurance companies.
 
tbaldwin said:
But not to the same extent anyway
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Really?

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/52273217.html

Since Democrats took control of Congress in 2006, health care industry donors have been giving more campaign cash to Democrats than Republicans. Democrats have received about 63% of the health sector's donations so far this year. Overall, the industry appears to be on track to spend more on campaign contributions than in previous years, said David Levinthal, of the Center for Responsive Politics.
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As you have the figures to hand to say the republicans received more let's see them bladers (you're wrong btw).

health_chart.jpg


If you think i'm going to spend any time dealing with such a simplistic argument as the republicans receive money from the various health companies and that's why they voted against this bill - therefore the bill is good, despite the simple facts that the democrats receive more money from the same sources (and some also voted against) destroying that claim then you've very wrong.
 
butchersapron said:
As you have the figures to hand to say the republicans received more let's see them bladers (you're wrong btw).

If you think i'm going to spend any time dealing with such a simplistic argument as the republicans receive money from the various health companies and that's why they voted against this bill - therefore the bill is good, despite the simple facts that the democrats receive more money from the same sources (and some also voted against) destroying that claim then you've very wrong.
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I reckon you will.....Your very guillible.....
I dont think you will be able to explain to me why the republicans all voted against the bill if it was such a win/win for the healthcare insurance lobby.
One of the things the BBC news said ( .....I know I know ......you have much better sources off the internet etc etc.....) was that the insurance companies would no longer be able to refuse cover to people who had existing illnesses....I know that probably wont mean a lot to you with your pathetic all or nothing politics but i'd imagine it might mean a lot to ill people
in the USA.....
 
I don't have to - it's already been destroyed. Of course Republicans are quite happy to get paid to pursue their existing ideological convictions. So what? The health companies would win if it was passed or not - they know that damn well -- as would anyone whose seen the sky-rocketing of their profits over the last year.

Square the larger figure for democrats receiving money from the same sources whilst pushing this bill through please.

Yes, i think that's an improvement for those people who can afford to pay for private health care - but, that doesn't change the general retrograde nature of the overall program. Things can have small good bits in them in order to get bigger bad parts implemented. You know, not all black and white and that.
 
butchersapron said:
I don't have to - it's already been destroyed. Of course Republicans are quite happy to get paid to pursue their existing ideological convictions. So what? The health companies would win if it was passed or not - they know that damn well -- as would anyone whose seen the sky-rocketing of their profits over the last year.

Square the larger figure for democrats receiving money from the same sources whilst pushing this bill through please.

Yes, i think that's an improvement for those people who can afford to pay for private health care - but, that doesn't change the general retrograde nature of the overall program. Things can have small good bits in them in order to get bigger bad parts implemented. You know, not all black and white and that.
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Oh dear Oh dear....so you found some dodgy facts that suit your miserabilist world view and fell for them 100%.....Like i say one of the most guillible posters on urban and thats no mean feat....
 
tbaldwin said:
The Republicans have been funded for years by opponents of healthcare reform, havent they? How did they vote?
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Take a look at the accounts of Sens. Bayh and Lieberman and you'll see why there's no public option in this sorry excuse for a bill.
 
This bill might be marginally better than nothing, but not much. Something definitely needs to change. My employer has gotten 85% premium increases, followed by 35% increases year and after. He can only soak up those costs for so long before he has to drop health insurance as a benefit.

I was hoping for something so much better than this "welfare program for insurance companies." I'd like to see an unlinking of a specific job to health insurance. I think it stiffles so many entreprenurial ideas before they even get started. It keeps people in jobs they hate just so they can have health insurance. I think a lot of people would walk away from dead-end jobs en masse and start their own enterprises if they could rely on another system for health care. (And, maybe thats the whole purpose of the current system).

I also liked a couple of the ideas that the Republicans had such as tort reform and giving small business the ability to look across state lines to get health insurance and health insurance exchanges.
 
Wolveryeti said:
The removal of the public insurance fund option was the end of this bill.
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The injection of profit into the provision of health care was the death of our health care system. I'm old enough to remember when hospitals were almost all non-profits and many health insurance companies were owned by their policy holders--buying a policy made you a defacto stockholder. Not so any more.
 
Brubricker said:
There's one very important thing you don't understand. Today is the first day in our ENTIRE HISTORY when we've had a single unified national health care policy. Up to now, every one of the 50 states set their own individual regulations for the industry. This led to a situation where healthcare companies subdivided themselves state-by-state. Everyone on this side of the pond is routinely accustomed to dealing with Blue Cross Insurance of California or Blue Cross of New York or Blue Cross of Florida and so on. These companies subdivided themselves in order to deal with the byzantine nightmare of 50 different sets of state regulations. They needed to have individual divisions which were expert in the unique regulations of each state.

Now, and only NOW, do we have a true national set of standards. You talk about the problem of regulation. Well, we've had too many different regulations from state to state. This was inefficiency writ-large. The mere fact that we've finally defeated Republican efforts to preserve this bizarre system is an enormous step forward. Health care providers can now, FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME, set truly national policy standards for their own companies.

American health care has, to this point, been absolutely ludicrous in ways that few outsiders could ever understand. Today we effectively broke the back of our hyper-regionalized system. That one achievement is, in and of itself, gigantically important.
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Extra_Refined doesn't give a fuck about any of that. He's a market fundamentalist.
 
FoxyRed said:
Well even though it doesnt extend universally..I am happy for the Americans that more of them have Healthcare. Better than what they had before.
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What they have is more possibility of healthcare, contingent on a whole host of factors to do with treatment limits etc. A few good things have come about, such as HMOs no longer being able to class birth defects as "pre-existing conditions", but it's nothing like "universal" healthcare.
 
tbaldwin said:
If the reforms work out so well for the insurance health companies how come they were so against it? Can someone explain why etc? I guess some people will always want to oppose any step forward as too far or not far enough....another sell out etc etc...
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It's called "herding", balders. It's a standard tactic. You open by going all-out against something, then concede points, but only points that draw the opposition toward the model you favoured in the first place.
The health insurers knew this was coming, and "played" the administration to get the best deal they could.
 
Miss Caphat said:
Please keep your greasy stalker fantasies to yourself. Stop singling me out or I'm reporting you.
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Questioning you on something you say or a position you take isn't singling you out or stalking.

People do it in nearly every thread. That's what a message board is all about. ;)

Just out of curiosity what 'fantasies' are you talking about? :hmm:
 
Miss Caphat said:
I hope people actually read this. Summarizes the actual bill. Please read!
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I see a series of tiny incremental tinkerings that are being put in place at the cost of putting the health insurers in the driving seat for evermore. The main thing being not being able to drop people for being sick or for refusing people with pre-existing conditions. Dealing with both/either of these did not necessitate giving the insurers billions (to later become trillions). What this quick summary leaves out is 100s of $billions in cuts from Medicare etc that it entails. It's actually estimated that it will cut nearly $150 billion from the federal deficit over the next decade.
 
So does this bill actually give the poorer people affordable health insurance or not?
 
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