US House passes Obama's key healthcare reform

[FoxyRed]

Well even though it doesnt extend universally..I am happy for the Americans that more of them have Healthcare. Better than what they had before.

 

[fractionMan]

Have you got a link to an article discussing that butchers?

 

[T & P]

What happens to 'uninsurable' people, i.e. those with pre-existing conditions or deemed a high risk for anything? Because that has always been an issue with the US system.

 

[dilute micro]

Well even though it doesnt extend universally..I am happy for the Americans that more of them have Healthcare. Better than what they had before.

Americans? You mean everybody covered.

 

[London_Calling]

Way too complex and far-reaching for me. This legislation will have all kinds of tricks, traps and cul-de-sacs, and then be dependent on all manner of other operations by outside forces.

When to get a sense of its durability, its impact on the national psyche, it's actual range and effect . . . five years, ten years . . . no idea.

It's almost like that Zhou Enlai quote when asked about the importance of ther French Revolution after 220 years - it's too early to say.

 

[editor]

*identical threads merged

 

[dilute micro]

This bill is a BUPA bill - it makes BUPA compulsory,

Which the Supreme Court will hear in a few years but do nothing about.

 

[butchersapron]

Have you got a link to an article discussing that butchers?

Here's a useful brief intro -and here's Kucinich outlining why he voted NO (previously)

I'll try and find something more comprehensive (no pun intended) in a bit - battling norovirus right now (and losing...badly).

 

[editor]

Here's a useful brief intro -and here's Kucinich outlining why he voted NO (previously)

I'll try and find something more comprehensive (no pun intended) in a bit - battling norovirus right now (and losing...badly).

That first link is a good 'un:

The claims made by the proponents of the bill are the usual deceptive corporate advertising. The bill will not expand coverage to 30 million uninsured, especially since government subsidies will not take effect until 2014.

Families who cannot pay the high premiums, deductibles and co-payments, estimated to be between 15 and 18 percent of most family incomes, will have to default, increasing the number of uninsured. Insurance companies can unilaterally raise prices without ceilings or caps and monopolize local markets to shut out competitors.

The $1.055 trillion spent over the next decade will add new layers of bureaucratic red tape to what is an unmanageable and ultimately unsustainable system.

 

[fractionMan]

Thanks for that butchers. Posting from the toilet?

 

[butchersapron]

Thanks for that butchers. Posting from the toilet?

Yeah, thank god for my ipod touch!

 

[Idris2002]

Yeah, thank god for my ipod touch!

How middle-class.

I've posted that quote from you truthdig link on my facebook page, and look forward to being defriended by all and sundry.

And now this:

http://socialistworker.org/2010/03/19/worse-than-nothing

Which raises the question, why is the UK Socialist Worker such utter crap compared to the US version?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Neo liberalism strikes again eh? It all looks and sounds nice from Obama, that is until you take a look at it and you find it smells like shit. The health care companies will just get richer. I think for a while health care coverage will rise but when the dust settles, as it were, they'll be more people in the shit over health care.

This part from the BBC website disturbs me the most:

Individual Mandate: Those not covered by Medicaid or Medicare must be insured or face fines

Apparently with medicaid the plan allows for anyone receiving up to 133% of federal poverty levels are eligible for medicaid. Well what about the people who fall just outside of that? Which is surely going to be millions isn't it? Their premiums are going to go up because, as has already been pointed out, the big companies can monopolise a certain area. So that's going to leave people without insurance.

Hope and change my bum hole.

 

[dilute micro]

But despite that gloomy thought, this is good news.
Edit: well, or so it seemed before the post below
*goes off to do some more research*

If something sounds good there's no need to hear the details.

Cheer up.

 

[_angel_]

Neo liberalism strikes again eh? It all looks and sounds nice from Obama, that is until you take a look at it and you find it smells like shit. The health care companies will just get richer. I think for a while health care coverage will rise but when the dust settles, as it were, they'll be more people in the shit over health care.

This part from the BBC website disturbs me the most:



Apparently with medicaid the plan allows for anyone receiving up to 133% of federal poverty levels are eligible for medicaid. Well what about the people who fall just outside of that? Which is surely going to be millions isn't it? Their premiums are going to go up because, as has already been pointed out, the big companies can monopolise a certain area. So that's going to leave people without insurance.

Hope and change my bum hole.

I know some people on here tried to compare it to how the NHS is funded and not penalties for not paying your taxes... but it's really not, for a start, you're not penalised if you are not a tax or national insurance payer and can still use the NHS.

 

[Idris2002]

It's almost like that Zhou Enlai quote when asked about the importance of ther French Revolution after 220 years - it's too early to say.

As a Maoist, Chou would have had a very clear and precise concept of the importance of the French Revolution - i.e. that it was a bourgeois revolution which established conditions for modern capitalism in France. So why did he say 'it's too early to tell'? Because, most likely, he misunderstood the question, assumed his interviewer was talking about some post-1968 new French revolution, and needed to cover his backside until he found what the party line was.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

This basically boils down to everyone being forced to buy health care from companies that can charge exactly what they want.

 

[Idris2002]

This basically boils down to everyone being forced to buy health care from companies that can charge exactly what they want.

There's always one cynic like you who has to go and spoil the magic for everyone else.

 

[dilute micro]

This basically boils down to everyone being forced to buy health care from companies that can charge exactly what they want.

The biggest hurdle is the "forced" part.

 

[fractionMan]

On the bright side, I'm sure I'll get to piss off both my republican and democrat relatives on faceache.

 

[Miss Caphat]

To keep it in perspective, even this bill was dangerously close to not being passed.
One of the good things it will do is force insurance co's to take on people with pre-existing conditions. Hopefully this paves the way to more regulations. Also, like here in MA, where you have to have health insurance, it creates a need for less expensive insurance, or state-funded programs (ours is called MassHealth)

 

[dilute micro]

To keep it in perspective, even this bill was dangerously close to not being passed.
One of the good things it will do is force insurance co's to take on people with pre-existing conditions. Hopefully this paves the way to more regulations. Also, like here in MA, where you have to have health insurance, it creates a need for less expensive insurance, or state-funded programs (ours is called MassHealth)

Have I been covered all this time under MassHealth and never knew about it?

Just so long as the insurance companies make their profits but leave me alone.

 

[butchersapron]

To keep it in perspective, even this bill was dangerously close to not being passed.
One of the good things it will do is force insurance co's to take on people with pre-existing conditions. Hopefully this paves the way to more regulations. Also, like here in MA, where you have to have health insurance, it creates a need for less expensive insurance, or state-funded programs (ours is called MassHealth)

According to the first article i linked to above:

Take a look at the health care debacle in Massachusetts, a model for what we will get nationwide. One in six people there who have the mandated insurance say they cannot afford care, and tens of thousands of people have been evicted from the state program because of budget cuts.

 

[TAE]

I think overall this is a very positive thing, but the question of how it is implemented and how the edgecases are handled will be cruicial.

 

[frogwoman]

hopefully abe11825 will see this thread ... she lives in mass and was really critical of obama/healthcare ...

 

[tbaldwin]

If the reforms work out so well for the insurance health companies how come they were so against it? Can someone explain why etc? I guess some people will always want to oppose any step forward as too far or not far enough....another sell out etc etc...

 

[SpookyFrank]

OK, so lets assume that these 30 million Americans magically find enough money down the back of the sofa, sorry, down the back of the couch to pay insurance premiums. Let's face it, they're bound to think of something or they're off to Siberia, do not pass go, do not recieve any treatment for frostbite. So with everyone now happily insured by private firms, the motivation for those insurers to boost profits by using any and every loophole to avoid paying for treatments disappears right? People with health insurance will no longer be forced to fork out for treatments on top of their premiums? Because if it's just business as usual but with another 30 million people marched on board at gunpoint, that's the opposite of good surely? All that has become uinversal is the right, not to say the obligation, to get shafted by health insurance companies...

 

[butchersapron]

If the reforms work out so well for the insurance health companies how come they were so against it? Can someone explain why etc? I guess some people will always want to oppose any step forward as too far or not far enough....another sell out etc etc...

They weren't so against it you simpleton, they spent a $1 billion ensuring it delivered exactly what they wanted. They were effectively partners in this legislation. Are you so lazy that you just see the phrase 'health care reform' and think ooh i like that that sounds good, i won't bother checking it out any further - after all its 'health care reform'!

 

[tbaldwin]

They weren't so against it you simpleton, they spent a $1 billion ensuring it delivered exactly what they wanted. They were effectively partners in this legislation. Are you so lazy that you just see the phrase 'health care reform' and think ooh i like that that sounds good, i won't bother checking it out any further - after all its 'health care reform'!

The Republicans have been funded for years by opponents of healthcare reform, havent they? How did they vote?

 

[butchersapron]

So are the democrats if that's your argument. Seriously, go and do at least 15 minutes research.