US election 2020 thread
- Thread starter petee
- Start date
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
While I was reading about Trump's twitter ban, I read that twitter was afraid of the violence that could be incited.
This morning, I saw this -
The above is exactly what the banning was supposed to prevent.
With Trump saying he was not going to the inaugration, twitter that this would be taken as a call to rally.
This morning, I saw this -
The above is exactly what the banning was supposed to prevent.
With Trump saying he was not going to the inaugration, twitter that this would be taken as a call to rally.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
I think this is quite important. Plus the sense of entitlement that comes from being in that position.
A lot of people (including them) just don't seem to appreciate what an attack on one of the symbols of democracy means, the magnitude of it. For those with a vested interest (and they hold the powers) this simply can't be allowed to happen. There will be a lot of people in for a shock and some really heavy sentences to try and deter this ever coming close to happening again.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yep. That's the bit that gets me. I'd be fucking worried if I were caught doing this kind of thing in the UK. In the US, with its bonkers prison sentences, they could get decades inside. And they genuinely don't seem to realise, posting after the event about their best day ever.
bimble
floofy
Things will be much more fractured now, there's other groups saying different dates, their channels of communication have been dealt a real blow and also dc has a 'state of emergency' in place until 20th which means curfew can be called whenever. I don't think there'll be much in the way of repeat attempts this month for all the noise online.
mhendo
Aussie in San Francisco
I'll be interested to see how it plays out in court. The offenses occurred on federal property, so most of these cases will be tried, I assume, in the Federal District Court in Washington, D.C.
This is probably good. If these people were tried in their home states, I'd worry about jury nullification. Even in heavily-Democratic Washington, all it would take is one sympathetic juror to hang the jury and result in a mistrial.
I'd be willing to bet, though, that quite a few of these cases will involve plea deals, and will never get in front of a jury. Well over 90 percent of federal cases in the United States are settled through plea bargaining, and the accused often has a strong incentive to accept the deal, because federal prosecutors are bulldogs who often threaten to charge every single possible crime and argue for the maximum possible sentence if the defendant chooses to go to trial.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
US Capitol building breach 'almost textbook' sedition, legal expert says
This sounds pretty right.
Up to 20 years for seditious conspiracy.
We'll see how it plays out and how the mood changes, but the death of the policeman does not help their cause one little bit.
This sounds pretty right.
Up to 20 years for seditious conspiracy.
We'll see how it plays out and how the mood changes, but the death of the policeman does not help their cause one little bit.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
mhendo's last bit is the important one in many cases. Overcharging, forcing you to accept the deal even if you're innocent because the amount you could lose going to court is so huge. It's a way of ensuring conviction regardless of guilt. It's a way of keeing prisons full, if anything, particularly full of black men.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
mhendo
Aussie in San Francisco
Well, part of the logic, I guess, is that they get a conviction without the time and hassle and expense of a trial. Prosecutors at all levels of the American criminal justice system have, over the years, been obsessed with their successful conviction rates, often at the expense of justice, which is precisely why so many innocent people end up in prison. Plea deals are also often used to get people to inform on their partners in crime. This has especially been the case in the federal government's disastrous drug war, where they threaten low-level users and dealers with bonkers prison sentences unless they rat out the guys further up the chain.
All of this makes for a terrible system, one that incarcerates more people than any other country in the world, with the possible exception of China (especially if you count China's political prison camps like those for the Uighurs). While I would really like to see some of these fascist rioters spend some time in prison, I'm also a strong advocate of criminal justice reform, and one area of American criminal justice that desperately needs reform is the federal justice system.
not at all - just because Trump has wealthy supporters, doesn't mean he doesn't have poor supporters. It's also no surprise that his poor supporters were unable to travel across the country, pay for hotels, etc etc for this particular action.
Treacle Toes
Time
bimble
floofy
Oh there'll be loads of freeman on the landing won't there.
mhendo
Aussie in San Francisco
It's worth noting, too, that the plea deal system is also widely used in state systems, for much the same reasons. If every criminal defendant at the state and federal level in the United States chose to exercise his or her right to a trial, the system would grind to a rapid and irreversible halt. Even with the vast majority of cases resolved through plea deals, the court systems are still incredibly slow, with some people waiting months or years for their trial. And that was before COVID basically shut the whole system down.
All of this is exacerbated by an incredibly unfair bail system that, in deciding who gets to go free on bail while awaiting trial, tends to focus more on money than on actual danger to the community. Defendants who can pony up thousands or tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in bail can await trial in the comfort of their home, while poor defendants who might present no flight risk and no danger to the community get kept in jail because they can't raise the money to get out. To fix this, some jurisdictions are starting to pass laws reducing or eliminating cash bail requirements, and mandating that judges carefully consider cases based not just on ability to pay, but on actual likelihood of flight, and actual danger to the community.
All of this is exacerbated by an incredibly unfair bail system that, in deciding who gets to go free on bail while awaiting trial, tends to focus more on money than on actual danger to the community. Defendants who can pony up thousands or tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in bail can await trial in the comfort of their home, while poor defendants who might present no flight risk and no danger to the community get kept in jail because they can't raise the money to get out. To fix this, some jurisdictions are starting to pass laws reducing or eliminating cash bail requirements, and mandating that judges carefully consider cases based not just on ability to pay, but on actual likelihood of flight, and actual danger to the community.
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
He left her a note with his (nick)name on it.....
This is weapons grade stupidity.
From the Graun.
www.theguardian.com
This is weapons grade stupidity.
From the Graun.
Capitol mob member who lounged at Pelosi staff person's desk is arrested
Richard Barnett will face federal charges, as will the West Virginia lawmaker Derrick Evans
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
If there ever is a senate hearing, I still can't see them getting 2/3. However, I suspect a few senators will be watching the way the wind is blowing, for example the declining 'approval rating' for the invasion. Could see a few of them sitting on their hands or having a dentist appointment on the day. A growing number if there are more arms finds or evidence the loons were planning to attack Pelosi etc. In fact the only logical thing a republican could say to justify failing to back impeachment would be that it's too late. But then having said all that there's probably a mental block that GOP senators would have to get past to abandon trump.
mhendo
Aussie in San Francisco
I think you're right, but I actually think that they're working against their own interests.
If they vote to impeach Trump, and also ban him from seeking office again, I think that they can effectively (although not immediately) kill Trumpism as an electoral force on the national level. There will still be Trumpists around, of course, but Trump is the glue that holds these morons together, and without him I don't think that someone like Josh Hawley can do it. Say what you like about Trump, but he has a unique style and personality that is magnetic to a particular type of embattled conservative.
Without Trump, I think that the Republican establishment like McConnell would move to reassert themselves as the core leadership of the party. The Trumpists throughout the country would cry betrayal and there would probably be some riots and violence, but I don't think that these idiots have what it takes to organize themselves without the Cheeto-Faced Shitgibbon rallying them together, and none of Trump's Republican supporters (Hawley, Cruz, etc.), nor his gormless offspring, have the charisma to do it either.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
I wouldn't discount the possibility of someone coming along, though.
teqniq
DisMembered
Fear and loathing in the White house:
nymag.com
Senior Trump Official: We Were Wrong, He’s a ‘Fascist’
“The legacy of the Trump administration is going to be that the president sparked an insurrection and people died.”
nymag.com
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Just sleep with the landing light on.Oh there'll be loads of freeman on the landing won't there.
David Duke?
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
I really have no idea, but who knows what's crawling around out there?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'm not sure who I hate more, these vile shits who used Trump to push their disgusting agendas or the true Trump believers who liked his fascist tendencies all along.Fear and loathing in the White house:
Senior Trump Official: We Were Wrong, He’s a ‘Fascist’
“The legacy of the Trump administration is going to be that the president sparked an insurrection and people died.”
not-bono-ever
meh
Only poor people deserve Gaol for this kind of action judging by the attitudes of the participants
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