Urban v's the Commentariat

[Theisticle]

Jesus,

Padraig Reidy ‏@mePadraigReidy
Is Laurie Penny being harassed because of a piece about her haircut? Is that happening?

https://twitter.com/mePadraigReidy/status/427926317237944320

The backslapping and mockery by them is really gross.

Helen Lewis ‏@helenlewis 10h
@Okwonga @vieux_jeu @MochineGun Yep. Find me one male commissioning ed who commissions as diverse a range of feminist voices as me.

LOL. Aren't most of them Twitter friends?

It's weird how people like Lewis get called out on their bullshit and suddenly she tweets that WoC can email her pitches.

Seriously, talk about playing the victims in this debate.

 

[Red Cat]

The man who just read came round to read the gas meter found my short hair so abrasive and scarily anti-feminine that he told me I looked lovely.

 

[Red Cat]

Bah! I bet she's loving the attention. It's The Laurie Penny Show. Same as always.

I think Freud called it repetition-compulsion.

 

[Steel Icarus]

The man who just read came round to read the gas meter found my short hair so abrasive and scarily anti-feminine that he told me I looked lovely.

Patriarchy personified, handing down compliments for you to giddily accept

 

[Combustible]

I can't think of any occasion she's taken on board criticism. I've seen her drop herself in the shit and panic her way out of it on occasion, but reflection and understanding of legitimate criticism? Nope. And yeah, it's all about her. Like the hair article, like every other article.

Well I wouldn't necessarily call it legitimate criticism but she has been perfectly willing to apologise and seek absolution in the past if the person who disagrees with her has a particular skin colour. Maybe she should take her own advice.

In her piece, Mensch singled me out for criticism because this week, after getting into a short debate with several black women on Twitter over the appropriate way to respond to racism, I accepted that they might know rather more than me about it, and apologised. The idea that somebody might change their mind based on new, better information, rather than "defending their position" come what may, is against the usual rules of the conservative commentariat. It's completely normal, however, in the world of blogs and forums where I grew up as a writer. Now it's entered the mainstream, everyone's claiming ignorance in a way that makes me suspect they just don't want to know.

... it's not all about you. Nobody's trying to shut you up – you both, after all, have large platforms. Telling someone to "check their privilege" isn't the same as censoring or silencing, but to people who aren't often introduced to the concept that they might be wrong, it can sometimes feel that way. When someone asks you to check your privilege, it doesn't mean you should stop talking – it means you should start listening, and sometimes that involves giving the other person in the room a chance to speak. That's what often upsets people most about the whole idea. It's about who gets to speak, and who has to listen, and social media is changing those rules.

Once you go down the intersectional road of uncritically accepting criticism because it comes from a POC/WOC you can't suddenly change your mind because you think the criticism is ridiculous. If a WOC says that you are erasing their experience (whatever that means), then you are. You can't even claim that your article has nothing really to do with race because if a POC says it does then it does. And it follows that if they say you are wrong then you are. And if you disagree with them then you are silencing them and not giving them room to speak.

 

[butchersapron]

The flip-side of her shutting up and uncritically accepting what say a black person says to her is that some like say me (a white male) cannot criticse her - in fact i cannot speak to anyone but those exactly like me. It effectively shuts down my voice and debates i may have with people from different backgrounds and cultures and replaces it with her voice. (This doesn't just happen in this instance, it can happen along any of the axes these people impose). In the name of openness to other ideas openness and other ideas are shut down.

 

[frogwoman]

you get a type of weird racism in how some people who buy into this theory talk about others tho ... "oh, i'm in a room full of brown people so they'll probably be left wing" lolwut?

 

[el-ahrairah]

Like her or not, she's one of the very few obviously genuine w-c voices in the cacaphony of haute bourgeois mithering that constitutes our national press. I suspect that many people would be tempted to behave like her in that kind of company.

you know, that's a good point that i hadn't considered.

 

[phildwyer]

you know, that's a good point that i hadn't considered.

Not that she doesn't sometimes camp it up for their benefit mind.

 

[J Ed]

It would be interesting to look at the correlation between people growing up in mostly white areas and adopting intersectionality.

 

[Idris2002]

It would be interesting to look at the correlation between people growing up in mostly white areas and adopting intersectionality.

You could publish the results in Annals of the Bleeding Obvious.

 

[DaveCinzano]

You could publish the results in Annals of the Bleeding Obvious.

Please never again elide into a single post the words ‘annals’ and ‘bleeding’ kthxbai

 

[Idris2002]

Please never again elide into a single post the words ‘annals’ and ‘bleeding’ kthxbai

 

[Brechin Sprout]

It would be interesting to look at the correlation between people growing up in mostly white areas and adopting intersectionality.

It would be interesting to look at the correlation between people growing up in mostly white areas and adopting xenophobia and racism.

 

[Ole]

From a bit further up on the page:

Helen Lewis ‏@helenlewis 10h
@Okwonga@vieux_jeu@MochineGun Yep. Find me one male commissioning ed who commissions as diverse a range of feminist voices as me

I don't know the context in which this was said; but, although I don't typically read the New Statesman, I don't recall seeing a Marxist/materialist/socialist feminist piece in it recently...feel free to point out if I am wrong anyone but if I'm right - what sort of 'diversity' is that?

Surely she's at least claiming to have aired a diverse range of feminist ideas.

Well I wouldn't necessarily call it legitimate criticism but she has been perfectly willing to apologise and seek absolution in the past if the person who disagrees with her has a particular skin colour. Maybe she should take her own advice.





Once you go down the intersectional road of uncritically accepting criticism because it comes from a POC/WOC you can't suddenly change your mind because you think the criticism is ridiculous. If a WOC says that you are erasing their experience (whatever that means), then you are. You can't even claim that your article has nothing really to do with race because if a POC says it does then it does. And it follows that if they say you are wrong then you are. And if you disagree with them then you are silencing them and not giving them room to speak.

It's just blog/Internet nonsense that no-one can take seriously in the real world except for inside insulated gatherings of these loons. On some level most of them have to know it. Their school of thought literally advocates abandoning reason and debate. Even religious fundamentalists know not to go this far when propagating amongst their faithful. No-one would listen.

 

[andysays]

I don't know the context in which this was said; but, although I don't typically read the New Statesman, I don't recall seeing a Marxist/materialist/socialist feminist piece in it recently...feel free to point out if I am wrong anyone but if I'm right - what sort of 'diversity' is that?

Surely she's at least claiming to have aired a diverse range of feminist ideas.

I don't typically read the New Statesman either, but I suspect that what she means is not that they air a wide range of opinion, but that they air opinion and ideas from an (allegedly) "diverse" group of individuals.

The fact that none of them hold Marxist/materialist/socialist feminist opinions is merely a coincidence...

 

[imposs1904]

It's self obsessed bullshit. Not the bald stuff, that brilliantly takes the mick out of that self-obsession. Here's a pic of me i put in a national mag that i edit because i think i look great.

I always knew you'd look like a twat, butchers, and I was right. Full kit wanker.












doesn't david weatherall look lovely.

 

[rekil]

https://twitter.com/amandapalmer/status/428300950390857728

12 Years a Slave drove the point home. the privileged (whites/straights/menfolk) MUST be allowed to fight for change. not just the oppressed

She should do more fillum reviews like this.

 

[frogwoman]

https://twitter.com/amandapalmer/status/428300950390857728

She should do more fillum reviews like this.

"allowed" by who?
and who says they are privileged

 

[MellySingsDoom]

https://twitter.com/amandapalmer/status/428300950390857728

She should do more fillum reviews like this.

Is this the right time to say "Check your privilege"? Anyone?

 

[frogwoman]

Is this the right time to say "Check your privilege"? Anyone?

there's never been a better time to check your privilege

 

[Bakunin]

there's never been a better time to check your privilege

Do we get charged excess baggage for that?

 

[MellySingsDoom]

there's never been a better time to check your privilege

I'm checking my privilege as I type, and every morning wake up to this little number to remind myself that privilege must be checked always:

 

[frogwoman]

Do we get charged excess baggage for that?

a discount for each spoke on the wheel

 

[J Ed]

Has anyone monetised checking your privilege yet? I'm thinking about a buying indulges type set up.

 

[J Ed]

Had a salacious thought about raceplay? Ever wrote an article about your own hairstyle that claimed to speak on behalf of women as a whole and thereby inadvertently marginalised JoCs, WoCs or OoCs? Do you think that you know better than a sex worker who thinks the DWP should sanction benefit claimants for refusing to work in brothels? It's time to officially check your privilege, only 9.99 with a subscription to the New Statesman! But wait there's more, buy now and receive a framed copy of Laurie Penny's hit poem Saudade!

 

[el-ahrairah]

Do you think that you know better than a sex worker who thinks the DWP should sanction benefit claimants for refusing to work in brothels?

yuk. did that really happen?

 

[J Ed]

yuk. did that really happen?

http://internationalsocialistnetwor...stress-magpie-hey-job-centre-sex-work-is-work - it would be the consequence of the DWP listing sex work, as this person thinks it should

 

[frogwoman]

Had a salacious thought about raceplay? Ever wrote an article about your own hairstyle that claimed to speak on behalf of women as a whole and thereby inadvertently marginalised JoCs, WoCs or OoCs? Do you think that you know better than a sex worker who thinks the DWP should sanction benefit claimants for refusing to work in brothels? It's time to officially check your privilege, only 9.99 with a subscription to the New Statesman! But wait there's more, buy now and receive a framed copy of Laurie Penny's hit poem Saudade!

what are jocs and oocs? do i need to check my privilege again?

 

[J Ed]

Journalists of Color and Otherkins of Color. I may have made the second one up and also yes.