Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Yep, Mrs. Booth's boy hit that one straight outta the park.
Urban v's the Commentariat
- Thread starter Belushi
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Yep, Mrs. Booth's boy hit that one straight outta the park.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Quality never goes out of style.
One of these two talks consisted of a debate between David Harvey, Paul Mattick Jr., Loren Goldner, and Andrew Kliman. A video is online of the incident. Penny insults them by proclaiming to be "fans of [their] work" (it doesnt fucking show) and then asks why they didnt mention women in their talks. None of them responded by saying "feminism was either irrelevant to class struggle or actively its enemy".
Theisticle
Well-Known Member
LOL
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Wot Penny said they said
Wot they actually said
Wot they actually said
LG: I am really sorry that I was born a white male and spent 40 years studying capitalist crisis. I think the question of the disappearance of the one-paycheck family — though I am no fan of the bourgeois nuclear family — is one key aspect of the contraction of social reproduction. This can lead to a fruitful discussion of some gender issues.
If one looks over a 200-year period — from the very labor-intensive capitalism that existed in the early 19th century to today — there is no question that there has been a long-term trend towards the rise of constant capital and the diminution of variable capital, albeit with a lot of fluctuations along the way. The credit system was necessary to uphold the value of different claims to wealth well past the time they otherwise would have collapsed due to lack of profit. The goal of socialism is, as Andrew said, the abolition of value, the destruction of the regulation of social production by socially necessary labor time.
PM: Participating on a panel like this is not a radical activity. It does not change the world. It does not undermine anything. As a group we are interested in the subject, but I see no reason to describe that as a radical or revolutionary activity. I generally refuse to be on a discussion that does not include at least one female. This time I would have refused, but, the truth is, I deal with a lot of the crisis literature, but I don’t know any women who are writing about the subject. I would say that issues of race and gender, while of importance or interest politically, are quite irrelevant to the question of the nature of the world economic downturn. They have no bearing on it. This is an extremely, highly abstract feature of capitalism. If you had total gender equality and total racial equality in every nation in the world, you would still have economic depressions. If we would begin to talk about political responses to the existing economic situation, then we would have to start talking about gender, race, nationality, and many other social categories. I think it has to be faced, as a sociological fact, that Marxist theory is a male business, like ham radio operators or tropical fish keeping. It’s a hobby for white males. There is a history behind that sociological fact.
AK: I would also have liked a more representative panel. But, on the question of planning: If you are going to overcome the law of value, you have to have planning and at some level it will have to be centralized, for practical reasons. To have a world economy, it has to be coordinated. It doesn’t have to be coordinated by bureaucracy in an oppressive manner. Michael Albert and Robin Hahnel have done really good work about how you can have, in a sense, central planning, without anybody being controlled.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
hardman Ken is banging on about the viel again, saying it can'tbe worn in court- a contentious point but then he adds
just to make sure we all know who he's talking to really.
Steel Icarus
maybe I'm a maze
'Goes into court in his kaftan and a bell. This doesn't go down at all well. They can handle the kaftan, they can't handle the bell. So, there's this judge sitting there in a cape like fucking Batman and this really rather far out looking hat...So, he looks at the Coalman and says "What's all this? This is a court, man. This ain't fancy dress." And the Coalman looks at him and says "You think you look normal, your honour?" Cunt gave him two years.'
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I shouldn't read the NS site. Just managed to enjoy Chuka 'man who would be king' Umma doing labour apologetics in a speech on class, race and social mobility. Shameful shit.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
"Social mobility". 
Why the fuck should anyone have to 'move' socially just to have a crack at a decent life?
Why the fuck should anyone have to 'move' socially just to have a crack at a decent life?
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
"Social mobility".
you've obviously never represented a working class constituency. they really are ghastly.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
"Social mobility".
speech finishes with a Dr King quote as well.
heres the lot
http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...eech-race-class-and-social-mobility-full-text
Investment in education, re-open sure starts, the gains we made in power are being rolled back etc etc I've got my eye on a cabinet position within the next five years etc
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
The very first sentence makes me want to stop.
I'd rather a society where the bus company is owned by everyone, thanks. Also, "son of a bus driver"? Nu Labour, the saviour of Hardworking People as epitomised by such folk as [insert lazy, romanticised placeholder of the salt-of-the-earth, flat-cap wearing proletarian. "Yes Guvna, right you are Sir, up the apple and pears, on the old dog 'n bone, etc"]. Let's have some imagination at least, Chuka.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the very first sentence makes me want to puke:
stomach-churning
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
"Wouldn't it be ace if the daughter of a greengrocer could go on to not only run but own the country."
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
why not? we've tried a grocer's daughter. can't be much worse.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Grocer, greengrocer, candlestick maker; all the same unless you were born in the 1950s. I go to a supermarket, Pickman. You old codger.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh you prefer to feed money to multinationals than to help a local business.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Touche mon capitan, as they say on Star Trek. I admit it, I'm a corporatist collaborator.
Steel Icarus
maybe I'm a maze
What really rankles with me, I think, is that even from reasonably thoughtful people, Laurie seems to get a free pass as she writes her way through her journey towards whatever the fuck politics she's going to end up espousing. Everyone evolves, politically, and loads of people have done it publicly on twitter or places like here - but being paid while you're doing it, for writing columns about it, and STILL regularly featuring in "most influential figures on the Left" lists seems to me hugely damaging. Learning your politics from someone who doesn't have a fucking clue about their own let alone those she purports to fight for. Jesus.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
Touche mon capitan, as they say on Star Trek. I admit it, I'm a corporatist collaborator.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Is this for my shopping transgressions or blatant trekker geekdom?
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
whichever you feel fits best 
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
He's a shameful excuse for an MP - someone who got elected off the back of his constituency having the demographic it does (part council estate working class, part middle-class liberal), and not for anything he's put into the community.
In fact, like his predeccessor, he's a "taker". he sounds off like he represents us, but he's totally fucking out of touch with us. His "blackness" gives him cred with the liberals, but it's meaningless when he and his party are happy to shit on people based on their position on the social ladder.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
He's a machine politician. Imagination isn't in his lexicon. Neither are honour, decency or democracy.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
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