Urban v's the Commentariat

[equationgirl]

proper meltdown innit. still, it's nice that he outed himself.

One less to go looking for.

Some of the comments are a bit wtf though - feminism being built on fraud being one of them.

 

[newbie]

someone c+p for me, can't load that without crashing the lappy

same

 

[J Ed]

Has anyone seen this http://socialistunity.com/stephen-f...ved-from-russia-over-gay-rights-is-hypocrisy/ ? I find the sudden interest in LGBT rights in Russia from Western governments nauseatingly hypocritical but this piece is just disgusting apologism which IMO veers very close to actual homophobia.

Also wtf does this mean

Furthermore, in 2008 Fry was one of the high profile Jewish signatories to an open letter protesting the celebration of Israel’s 60th anniversary, and he is a supporter of British Jews for Justice for Palestinians, which supports and campaigns for Palestinian human rights.

Since Fry is one of the good Jews (implicit here is the idea that Jews who do not talk about Israel are bad) we didn't expect him to do anything so imperialist as speak out against homophobic violence on a mass scale which the Russian government colludes in?! Just disgusting.

 

[smokedout]

A modest wordsmith writes...

In most other circumstances, however, far more good would be done if experts, opinionators and maybe even a few ordinary people were allowed to talk

sums up everything, this is how she wants politics to be, her, people like her, and an ordinary every now and then for the cameras

 

[love detective]

opinionators

jesus fuck!

 

[butchersapron]

"...and I’m often lucky enough to be asked to speak on issues.."

Why? Because you are especially informed? Because you have a unique angle to bring to the debate? Or because of the contacts you've made and because the commissioning editors come from the same narrow class/social network as you and have a limited contact book. Which is which is why ordinaries get shut out. Because of you. Because of how you operate and because of what you do.

 

[butchersapron]

Has anyone seen this http://socialistunity.com/stephen-f...ved-from-russia-over-gay-rights-is-hypocrisy/ ? I find the sudden interest in LGBT rights in Russia from Western governments nauseatingly hypocritical but this piece is just disgusting apologism which IMO veers very close to actual homophobia.

Also wtf does this mean



Since Fry is one of the good Jews (implicit here is the idea that Jews who do not talk about Israel are bad) we didn't expect him to do anything so imperialist as speak out against homophobic violence on a mass scale which the Russian government colludes in?! Just disgusting.

This is bad bad bad. What's driving this idiocy?

 

[frogwoman]

Has anyone seen this http://socialistunity.com/stephen-f...ved-from-russia-over-gay-rights-is-hypocrisy/ ? I find the sudden interest in LGBT rights in Russia from Western governments nauseatingly hypocritical but this piece is just disgusting apologism which IMO veers very close to actual homophobia.

Also wtf does this mean



Since Fry is one of the good Jews (implicit here is the idea that Jews who do not talk about Israel are bad) we didn't expect him to do anything so imperialist as speak out against homophobic violence on a mass scale which the Russian government colludes in?! Just disgusting.

Sounds like they expected him to take a knee jerk "anti-imperialist" position because he opposes the Israeli state.

 

[frogwoman]

Firstly, the recent law passed by the Russian Duma is hardly a reason to compare contemporary Russia to Nazi Germany, as Fry does in his letter. The ludicrous nature of such a comparison only serves to trivialise fascism and the huge suffering endured by the Russian and Soviet people in the Second World War, during which 25-30 million died before the Soviet Union defeated the Nazis.

What does he think the second world war started in 1933? I'm not a fan of misplaced nazi comparisons but sometimes activities by governments do display some similarities, it's not "trivialising it" to point this out especially because the sort of laws which would later be used by the Nazis were used in other non-fascist regimes

also, some of the Nazi era prohibitions against homosexuality were not taken off the books until years later

 

[frogwoman]

Homosexuality was decriminalised in Russia in 1993 and though there are still cultural issues with regard to prejudice against gays in the country, the idea that liberals and activists in Britain have the requisite moral authority to preach to the Russian government over the issue is the product of arrogance.

ugh, "anti-imperialist" (as if russia isn't imperialist itself) apologism at its worst

Whether we like to admit it or not, homosexuality and sexual promiscuity are still viewed as two sides of the same coin in some societies, feeding a misplaced understanding of homosexuality as solely a lifestyle choice motivated by hedonism. It is seen as a corrupting and corrosive influence on social cohesion as a consequence. There is of course nothing wrong with homosexuality as a lifestyle choice. The freedom to choose any lifestyle a person so wishes, as long as it does not impinge on the rights of others, is rightly deemed sacrosanct in a healthy society.

fucking hell, that's pretty naked

 

[weepiper]

Why? Because you are especially informed? Because you have a unique angle to bring to the debate? Or because of the contacts you've made and because the commissioning editors come from the same narrow class/social network as you and have a limited contact book. Which is which is why ordinaries get shut out. Because of you. Because of how you operate and because of what you do.

'lucky'.

 

[The Pale King]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/14/solidarityisforwhitewomen-hashtag-feminism

An article on Hugo Schwyzer's difficulties from the perspective of a Black Feminist. I'm on her side, but I think it's a poor article, keeping as it does to the modern convention of not doing politics, but talking about it at a remove - 'launching' twitter hashtags and talking about the 'therapeutic' process of sharing stories and ending, you guessed it, with a call for 'an honest conversation'. But I think it does at least point out the superficial nature of what's put out by a lot of people who call themselves feminists and get a column, and it identifies some of the faultlines that run through the present digital feminist (digifeminist?) and intersectionalist milieu.

 

[frogwoman]

I met someone last night who went to Palestine for two months while doing his degree lol. He described himself as a "reformist labour liberal". He said that he stayed in Israel for a few days but was boycotting Israeli goods while there (eh?? hows that work then). I thought about getting in a debate with him but then thought "no Rach, no, you're going to see a film in a few minutes"

 

[bamalama]

was boycotting Israeli goods while there.

Personally i've no problem with people boycotting israeli goods,but that seems like a mammoth task right there

 

[frogwoman]

Personally i've no problem with people boycotting israeli goods,but that seems like a mammoth task right there

Nor do I (although I don't like the groups involved in the campaign and I don't boycott them myself, I don't think boycotts work but I don't have a problem with people doing it).

It just seems a bit of an impossible task to go to Israel and boycott Israel at the same time, some mental gymnastics probably involved as well

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't think boycotts work

of course they work, look what happened to captain boycott. they may not ALL work, but that's a different thing.

 

[frogwoman]

of course they work, look what happened to captain boycott. they may not ALL work, but that's a different thing.

have to be in conjunction with other things tho surely? like MASS ACTION OF THE WORKING CLASS etc

 

[bamalama]

have to be in conjunction with other things tho surely? like MASS ACTION OF THE WORKING CLASS etc

In principle probably,and desirable, in practice i don't think so.There's pickmans example of the original boycott,but i think the most obvious example is south africa,and there's a few others

 

[J Ed]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/14/solidarityisforwhitewomen-hashtag-feminism

An article on Hugo Schwyzer's difficulties from the perspective of a Black Feminist. I'm on her side, but I think it's a poor article, keeping as it does to the modern convention of not doing politics, but talking about it at a remove - 'launching' twitter hashtags and talking about the 'therapeutic' process of sharing stories and ending, you guessed it, with a call for 'an honest conversation'. But I think it does at least point out the superficial nature of what's put out by a lot of people who call themselves feminists and get a column, and it identifies some of the faultlines that run through the present digital feminist (digifeminist?) and intersectionalist milieu.

This link is interesting http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/why-did-controversial-feminist-hugo-schwyzer-have-a-twitter

Scroll down to the actual breakdown tweets, it explains a lot. Wow.

 

[Pickman's model]

have to be in conjunction with other things tho surely? like MASS ACTION OF THE WORKING CLASS etc

a boycott is mass action, and some boycotts are even mass action of the working class

 

[The Pale King]

This link is interesting http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/why-did-controversial-feminist-hugo-schwyzer-have-a-twitter

Scroll down to the actual breakdown tweets, it explains a lot. Wow.

Wow indeed. He seems to have briefly returned to twitter in a similar vein today: https://twitter.com/hugoschwyzer

A pretty wretched tale for all concerned really - particularly those either attacked and abused or taken in by Schwyzer.

 

[DaveCinzano]

This link is interesting http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/why-did-controversial-feminist-hugo-schwyzer-have-a-twitter

Scroll down to the actual breakdown tweets, it explains a lot. Wow.

That piece also links to this article on The Hairpin:

...When he flounced from Twitter, he made sure to alert [Chris] Randle and longtime antagonist Malcolm Harris, crediting them with his decision to leave. It was also what many women wanted, but he didn't acknowledge any of them.

Randle, a contributing editor at Hazlitt, and Harris, senior editor at The New Inquiry, chatted with me yesterday about how strange it is to be told you've driven someone offline. Full disclosure: we've all socialized IRL, and Malcolm has edited me.

SES: Who is Hugo Schwyzer, and why did you drive him from the Internet?

CR: I guess we need to expand on "a sociopath"?

MH: He's a self-identified male feminist commentator with a well but not well-enough-known history as an abuser and all-around creep. [...etc etc...]

Glass houses, Malky, glass houses.

 

[J Ed]

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/08/occupys-greatest-artist-writes-her-memoirs.html

I'll talk about working at the Box nightclub and how that was my artistic coming-of-age. A lot of it's about the demimonde as a place of transgression, a place where the classes meet and rub up against each other. I think there’s way more class warfare in a nightclub than anyone gives it credit for.

Shots fired! Capitalism trembles!

 

[frogwoman]

I'll talk about working at the Box nightclub and how that was my artistic coming-of-age. A lot of it's about the demimonde as a place of transgression, a place where the classes meet and rub up against each other

not in the nightclubs she goes to i bet

 

[el-ahrairah]

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/08/occupys-greatest-artist-writes-her-memoirs.html

That reminds me of this lass who was at Occupy in London, posh, dreadlocks, talking about shocking people in China Whites by being, like, totally a crusty now. Then back-pedalling rapidly when we all looked at her. "I only went to China Whites for a laugh because my mates went." Thus failing the first rule of boasting about your life. Never back-pedal, never explain. No-one cares if you're a posh, just don't be either a poser or pretend you're not.

 

[el-ahrairah]

not in the nightclubs she goes to i bet

well, i've never seen her dry-humping a hod-carrier from Becontree in the dark corner of Secrets in Romford.

 

[J Ed]

Middle-class clubbers getting off with working-class clubbers is a lil bit class warfare..

 

[frogwoman]

That reminds me of this lass who was at Occupy in London, posh, dreadlocks, talking about shocking people in China Whites by being, like, totally a crusty now. Then back-pedalling rapidly when we all looked at her. "I only went to China Whites for a laugh because my mates went." Thus failing the first rule of boasting about your life. Never back-pedal, never explain. No-one cares if you're a posh, just don't be either a poser or pretend you're not.

what's china whites?

 

[weepiper]

Middle-class clubbers getting off with working-class clubbers is a lil bit class warfare..

'bit of rough'.

 

[danny la rouge]

what's china whites?

A song by the Incredible String Band? Or maybe Johnny Thunders or the Ramones?