Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-25

[bimble]

This is the conundrum: if you believe that this war will inevitably spill over NATO's borders, then you aren't discussing whether we will end up fighting in it, merely when we will end up fighting it.

.

sorry to clip your post but, IF a person were to believe that (that it's inevitable that 'we' will end up fighting in this war), is there any reason they'd advocate that getting involved should wait for some new development / red line because later is better than sooner ?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

right. i've consulted the tables, and derived the number 38 from the information you've provided. which, when i turn to nostradamus, leads us to this quatrain:
View attachment 313902

so yes, i am confident that there's a chance yer man's opinion is solid

I'm sure the Eagle has long since ceased publication. I think this casts some doubt on this prophecy

 

[nogojones]

sorry to clip your post but, IF a person were to believe that (that it's inevitable that 'we' will end up fighting in this war), is there any reason they'd advocate that getting involved should wait for some new development / red line because later is better than sooner ?

Later is surely gonna be better. Russia gets further degraded and tensions rise at home whilst the west has time to hit the gym and look hench on the summer battlefield

 

[steveseagull]

This fucker has taken a long nap

 

[andysays]

The corporations is an even worse answer. Don’t think nuclear apocalypse is good for business in general. Apart from big tinned food maybe.

Spymaster has an idea that the west may be forced to drop its non-involvement stance but I don’t see where the pressure to do so would come from.

I think it's a mistake to look at this in such binary terms as non-involvement or involvement.

Various western countries are involved now (and arguably were already involved before Russia invaded), both by supplying stuff to Ukraine, and by having imposed sanctions on Russia.

And of course it's possible that, depending on various things, these countries, individually or collectively, may get more involved that they are at the moment.

 

[kebabking]

sorry to clip your post but, IF a person were to believe that (that it's inevitable that 'we' will end up fighting in this war), is there any reason they'd advocate that getting involved should wait for some new development / red line because later is better than sooner ?

Oh, yes. Every day we wait the Russian Army gets a bit more fucked in material terms - of course, it's also learning as it goes through that experience, so it's a bit swings and roundabouts - everyday we wait the readiness of NATO land forces improves and the more is brought into eastern and central Europe, and every day we wait another F-35, another Meteor missile, another AH-64E, another GMLRS rocket rolls off the production line and into our armouries.

Little point starting a war now if, by waiting another month, your chances get better.

The downside is of course that everyday we wait another city gets flattened, little kids gets their limbs ripped off, or sit in traffic jams for 3 days without nappies or milk. every day we wait a rather paranoid bloke with some ambitious views on where his country's borders should be has control over 6000 nuclear warheads.

You pays your money, and you takes your choice.

 

[Yossarian]

right. i've consulted the tables, and derived the number 38 from the information you've provided. which, when i turn to nostradamus, leads us to this quatrain:
View attachment 313902

so yes, i am confident that there's a chance yer man's opinion is solid

The sun and eagle is the flag of Kazakhstan, so I guess we should be looking out for suspicious moves from the Caspian Flotilla.

 

[frogwoman]

Part of me does wonder if nato reluctance to put a no fly zone etc is just delaying the inevitable.

 

[ska invita]

You pays your money, and you takes your choice.

the other choice is ceasefire and accord

 

[bimble]

I think it's a mistake to look at this in such binary terms as non-involvement or involvement.

Various western countries are involved now (and arguably were already involved before Russia invaded), both by supplying stuff to Ukraine, and by having imposed sanctions on Russia.

And of course it's possible that, depending on various things, these countries, individually or collectively, may get more involved that they are at the moment.

Yep of course.
I meant ‘direct involvement’ according to the rules of their language.

Today again this formulation from sec general of nato:



It’s been repeated so many times and not conditionally just as a fact. It says, Mr Putin's nukes frighten us very much and therefore we steadfastly assure him that we will not get directly involved. What is the point of this being repeated again and again by him and Biden and others idk.

 

[kebabking]

the other choice is ceasefire and accord

Of course, an accord requires something that all sides can live with...

 

[The39thStep]

Blimey

 

[dilute micro]

Part of me does wonder if nato reluctance to put a no fly zone etc is just delaying the inevitable.

We need to be honest about a no fly zone. It's a declaration of war against Russia. In the meantime NATO is hoping Russia gets depleted or something internal happens to remove Putin, anything but all out war.

 

[Pickman's model]

We need to be honest about a no fly zone. It's a declaration of war against Russia. In the meantime NATO is hoping Russia gets depleted or something internal happens to remove Putin, anything but all out war.

i don't think hope is a good substitute for a proper plan

 

[dilute micro]

i don't think hope is a good substitute for a proper plan

What is the plan otherwise? Would Putin allow himself and his precious country to be defeated? They are legitimately paranoia about the west. They'd imagine a takeover of the country, not a defensive war.

 

[Pickman's model]

What is the plan otherwise? Would Putin allow himself and his precious country to be defeated? They are legitimately paranoia about the west. They'd imagine a takeover of the country, not a defensive war.

if nato don't have a plan then they're going to really struggle should push come to shove against russia

 

[Raheem]

What is the plan otherwise? Would Putin allow himself and his precious country to be defeated?

You can't always avoid defeat by being determined not to allow it.

 

[Shechemite]

‘Legitimate security concerns’

Russia accused of bombing disabled care home in Kharkiv

 

[bimble]

This is reportedly about to happen, after it didn't when it was expected to before.
If it does that means there are officially 3 countries involved doesnt it.

 

[friedaweed]

Blimey

Eaton rifles!

 

[bimble]

This is on the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs website today.

“Regarding potential chemical provocations in Ukraine”​

"Radical Ukrainian groups under the control of the representatives of American special services have prepared several potential scenarios of the use of toxic chemicals in order to carry out various types of provocations.
The objective of such actions is to accuse Russia of the use of chemical weapons against the civil population..
In this regard, the risks are growing of extremist-inclined elements acting as part of so-called national battalions that may be set on taking radical steps, the horrific consequences of which is impossible to predict."

this is just terrifying shit.

 

[zahir]

The next stage of bringing Syria to the Ukraine.

 

[Pickman's model]

d

The next stage of bringing Syria to the Ukraine.

i think that if they knew what had happened to the chechens who went off to kill vz this lot wouldn't really want to go to ukraine.

 

[friedaweed]

The next stage of bringing Syria to the Ukraine.

West is openly sending mercenaries.

Well they are really.

Private military firms see demand in Ukraine war

Private military contractors see surging demand in Ukraine - but could the work turn mercenary?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[kebabking]

There are lots of indications that they are bringing in the Motley Crue because the vast numbers of reservists (former conscripts) that the Russian Army depends on for it's full mobilisation mass, haven't had any refresher training in years, that their vehicles haven't moved in years - and so won't - and there's no rations, maps, communication systems or even uniforms for them...

It, of course, also psychological: this is bringing in the 'savages'. Old as the hills.

 

[Pickman's model]

There are lots of indications that they are bringing in the Motley Crue because the vast numbers of reservists (former conscripts) that the Russian Army depends on for it's full mobilisation mass, haven't had any refresher training in years, that their vehicles haven't moved in years - and so won't - and there's no rations, maps, communication systems or even uniforms for them...

It, of course, also psychological: this is bringing in the 'savages'. Old as the hills.

if i was from syria and going to ukraine i think i'd really want a map because knowledge of idlib or whatnot wouldn't help much in the badlands of cherkassy or poltava

 

[friedaweed]

There are lots of indications that they are bringing in the Motley Crue because the vast numbers of reservists (former conscripts) that the Russian Army depends on for it's full mobilisation mass, haven't had any refresher training in years, that their vehicles haven't moved in years - and so won't - and there's no rations, maps, communication systems or even uniforms for them...

It, of course, also psychological: this is bringing in the 'savages'. Old as the hills.

It didn't go that well with the bearded savages earlier.

 

[Pickman's model]

It didn't go that well with the bearded savages earlier.

no indeed.

 

[bimble]

Pre-emptively denying responsibility for any imminent chemical attack is just the only way they can go about threatening chemical warfare isnt it. they know that not a soul will believe the story, but the terrorising threat gets across.

 

[friedaweed]

This is reportedly about to happen, after it didn't when it was expected to before.
If it does that means there are officially 3 countries involved doesnt it.

I just read that the Ukrainians are saying that a Russian jet shot at a Belarusian Village from within Ukrainian airspace. Talk about smoke and mirrors.