Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[Treacle Toes]

keep posting on the bedroom tax thread, very informative

I will and anywhere else I like.

 

[J Ed]

Couldn't you just do that to any photo of anyone ever? What's the point in it? Surely Farage is actually seen as less serious, more humorous and likely to pass the pint test, than most politicians.

 

[redsquirrel]

snip

That is utter shit.

Though this tripe is almost as bad.

10 good reasons not to vote for Ukip
.........
9) Has there ever been a major party so dependent on one sellable character?

Can't even get basic facts right.

 

[William of Walworth]

This is better

(in Swansea apparently)

I know where that is! Will look for it on the bus this morning

Farage's coming to town this evening, with a gathering of opponents expected too. We'll both be along ...

 

[butchersapron]

Big big lead for ukip in latest tns-bmrb European poll, 36% to labour 27% tory 18 and lib dem Scum on tens.

 

[Dogsauce]

Are they successfully pulling votes out of Labour now, which is what that poll suggests? Is the strategy working or still harming the Tories more?

 

[brogdale]

That is utter shit.

Though this tripe is almost as bad.
Can't even get basic facts right.

Yes, there are many reasons not to vote for UKIP, but.....

8. It speaks with forked tongues

 

[butchersapron]

They're taking support from all places, but it only hurts labour in the euros really.

 

[Dogsauce]

Poll from a week ago for comparison, nicked off the other thread:

LAB 30%, UKIP 27%, CON 22%, LDEM 10%, GREEN 6%. (Apr 23rd)
(Vs 27%. 36%. 18%. 10% today)

It's all margins of error, but suggests Tories still dropping more points.

Tories will play the result as 'humiliation for labour' rather than take it as a criticism of themselves ("we're the incumbent, we expect a protest vote, people have had it hard but we're building the recovery and listening to their concerns")

 

[co-op]

Big big lead for ukip in latest tns-bmrb European poll, 36% to labour 27% tory 18 and lib dem Scum on tens.

Have you got a link for that one? Can't find it.

 

[butchersapron]

Have you got a link for that one? Can't find it.

Not yet, will post when I have.

 

[co-op]

Not yet, will post when I have.

Ta.

 

[butchersapron]

Ta.

That poll

LAB 27% (-3)
UKIP 36% (+7)
CON 18% (-3)
LIB DEM 10% (+1)
OTHER 9% (-2)

Full data just under the main bit.

 

[articul8]

not confident enough to go for Newark though

 

[youngian]

not confident enough to go for Newark though

Turnouts are slightly higher as well and that doesn't play well for UKIP. Unlike the SDP in the 80s or even the Lib Dems this is nothing like a serious party that anyone outside of its core base of swivel eyed loons can see playing a role in government.
As for Labour they seem content to let UKIP slug it out with the Tories and watch Cameron drift farther to the right come the general election. A dangerous strategy as UKIP are starting to pepper their manifesto with more economic inteventionist measures to woo Labour voters. But not to the extent of the French FN and it is lucky for Labour that UKIP is still run by free-market headbangers like Farage.

 

[DownwardDog]

Could 'swivel eyed' be the most over used cliche in British political discourse?

 

[butchersapron]

Turnouts are slightly higher as well and that doesn't play well for UKIP. Unlike the SDP in the 80s or even the Lib Dems this is nothing like a serious party that anyone outside of its core base of swivel eyed loons can see playing a role in government.
As for Labour they seem content to let UKIP slug it out with the Tories and watch Cameron drift farther to the right come the general election. A dangerous strategy as UKIP are starting to pepper their manifesto with more economic inteventionist measures to woo Labour voters. But not to the extent of the French FN and it is lucky for Labour that UKIP is still run by free-market headbangers like Farage.

Any labour-->ukip movement won't be electorally significant though as it'll tend to be in areas with large labour majorities.

 

[youngian]

Could 'swivel eyed' be the most over used cliche in British political discourse?

Its succint and we know who its aimed at. I rather like Turnip Taliban as well.

 

[treelover]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ens-his-attack-ukip-more-thatcherite-thatcher


Milliband attacks UKIP 'from the left' in the Daily Mirror today

btw, its interesting that most UKIP voters want a bigger role for the state, nationalisation, higher taxes for the rich, etc.

 

[butchersapron]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ens-his-attack-ukip-more-thatcherite-thatcher


Milliband attacks UKIP 'from the left' in the Daily Mirror today

btw, its interesting that most UKIP voters want a bigger role for the state, nationalisation, higher taxes for the rich, etc.

That's a more productive method for the mainstream parties to take to achieve their ends (note:this isn't me supporting those ends) but he really needs to not make the pro-eu argument, that's exactly what UKIP want him/them to do. Only one winner on that ground.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ens-his-attack-ukip-more-thatcherite-thatcher


Milliband attacks UKIP 'from the left' in the Daily Mirror today

btw, its interesting that most UKIP voters want a bigger role for the state, nationalisation, higher taxes for the rich, etc.

Yeah it reminds me of this:

 

[treelover]

If you want to know about the real agenda of a political party it is vital that you understand how the party is funded. If UKIP we're some kind of alternative, then surely they would have an alternative funding model, rather than relying on huge donations from super-wealthy individuals, just like the Tory party?

We'll the evidence speaks for itself,: UKIP are funded in exactly the same way as the Tory party, and were they ever to obtain any real measure of power, you can be absolutely sure that their financial backers will be looking for payback (in the form of favourable legislation, seats in the House of Lords, knighthoods, political appointments, subsidies and outsourcing contracts or even the chance to actually write government legislation for them) in exactly the same way major donors to the Tory party have been handed countless favours by the Tory led government.

Aside from being funded in exactly the same way as the Tories, there is another absolutely compelling piece of evidence that they are nothing like the "alternative" people are looking for, which is the fact that the majority of their political donations come from people that used to finance the Tory party!

UKIP's biggest donor is Paul Sykes, an ex-Tory donor, who has made his level of control over the party absolutely clear with statements like "Me and Nigel work well together. He's articulate and he's learned a lot ... but remember I binned Nigel once before in 2004".

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/ukip-alternative-delusion-neoliberal.html

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/ukip-alternative-delusion-neoliberal.html

another attack from the left, much better than labour's

 

[gosub]

Are they successfully pulling votes out of Labour now, which is what that poll suggests? Is the strategy working or still harming the Tories more?

Yougov has them taking 46% of 2010 tory voters, 17% of Labour, and 24% of Libdems. Relating to the Euro elections

 

[butchersapron]

Yougov has them taking 46% of 2010 tory voters, 17% of Labour, and 24% of Libdems. Relating to the Euro elections

Do you mean 47% of their vote is former tories according to YG? Or do you really mean they have taken half of the tory vote i.e 5 million votes. That figure drops to 17% for the general election btw

 

[butchersapron]

Another poll just published:

ComRes

TORY 18%(-4)
LAB 27%(-3)
LDEM 8%(nc)
UKIP 38%(+8)

 

[treelover]

These artisan French foods, proud produce of our terroirs and all protected by Appellation d'Origine status, will soon be at the mercy of multinationals, under the new transatlantic trade and investment partnership the European Union is negotiating with the US.
"American farmers and 'big food' will rule; our regulations and standards will count for nothing," Chauprade continues. "This is an EU that has no respect for national specificities; it's an EU of bureaucrats, of ever greater normalisation, in the service of big banks and corporations. It is not the EU we want."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...lux-eurosceptics-parties-european-union-polls

Are UKIP raising the issue of the EU's imminent signing of the 'transatlantic trade and investment partnership'(TTIP) with the U.S which ultimately will cede more sovereignty away from nation states as Big Corp runs riot in the EU?

Maybe not, as Farage wants something similar for U.S and U.K

btw, the above is from a prominent FN politician, but its an argument the left should be making across the EU.

 

[Theisticle]

Another poll just published:

ComRes

TORY 18%(-4)
LAB 27%(-3)
LDEM 8%(nc)
UKIP 38%(+8)

The caveat:

Note that both polls are based on only those certain to vote. This tends to boost up the support of UKIP, who have the most enthusiastic supporters in the European elections – if ComRes had taken those saying they were 5+/10 likely to vote it would have decreased UKIP’s lead to four points.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8768

 

[butchersapron]

The caveat:

Note that both polls are based on only those certain to vote. This tends to boost up the support of UKIP, who have the most enthusiastic supporters in the European elections – if ComRes had taken those saying they were 5+/10 likely to vote it would have decreased UKIP’s lead to four points.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8768

True, but the line of march is clear.

 

[chilango]

Tell you what, when "us on the Left" can start pulling the figures that UKIP do maybe then we can sneer from our high ground, till then we'd be better served trying to learn something from the "swivel eyed loons" who are doing politics a lot better than we are.

 

[brogdale]

True, but the line of march is clear.

Vermin sub 20%...hmmm.