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Ukip - why are they gaining support?

Her claims about the guardian pretty clearly are just paranoia about UKIP persecuting her 'stiching me up' - and she repeats this UKIP/IRA nonsense as well.
 
ok, story should break tomorrow afternoon (bar any last minute legal shit i suppose)... watch this space, i might be wrong but i am pretty certain i am not. I will gladly suck it up if i am.
 
Fingers said:
ok, story should break tomorrow afternoon (bar any last minute legal shit i suppose)... watch this space, i might be wrong but i am pretty certain i am not. I will gladly suck it up if i am.
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Well lets assume for a minute you are right and this story does break, why is it a godsend? What will it achieve?
 
Fingers said:
It could royally fuck them right up. I call that a bit of a godsend considering how popular they seemingly are at the moment.
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Well again, assuming that it does "royally fuck them right up" what are the benefits form that? Besides the fact that the traditional parties, particularly the Tories, gaining a higher % share of the vote?
 
It would have to be a issue of seismic importance to dent their popularity at the moment, maybe major personal corruption by Farage.
 
treelover said:
It would have to be a issue of seismic importance to dent their popularity at the moment, maybe major personal corruption by Farage.
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Arrghhhh! Do people not read this fucking thread, as has been pointed out god knows how many times Farage polls behind UKIP, the idea that removing Farage=the collapse of UKIP is utter rubbish.

EDIT: though to be fair it could "dent their popularity" a little.
 
redsquirrel said:
Well again, assuming that it does "royally fuck them right up" what are the benefits form that? Besides the fact that the traditional parties, particularly the Tories, gaining a higher % share of the vote?
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Simples, I do not like UKIP any more than the BNP and would rather have the traditional parties in power than let these grubby fuckers get even a fraction of it.
 
Britain is now a country which loathes its politicians (largely justifiably), and anyone who can give the impression of being unlike them will find a large audience.
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This is as good an explanation as any as to why UKIP are getting so much attention and building support. Our politicical classes are almost universally despised (being perceived as corrupt, nepotistic and hopelessly out of touch with everything). Then again, if there was a left party diametrically opposite to UKIP with a 'curse on both your houses' attitude to the mainstream, some very wealthy backers and getting a fuckton of airtime then they too might be in a similar position...
 
Nylock said:
This is as good an explanation as any as to why UKIP are getting so much attention and building support. Our politicical classes are almost universally despised (being perceived as corrupt, nepotistic and hopelessly out of touch with everything). Then again, if there was a left party diametrically opposite to UKIP with a 'curse on both your houses' attitude to the mainstream, some very wealthy backers and getting a fuckton of airtime then they too might be in a similar position...
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They wouldn't get the airtime or the backers because they wouldn't be establishment arguments.

Some of the major roots of UKIP support and attitudes is in the decades of virulent day in /out shite in The Mail, Express et al. Those rags may have an air of critique of the party in order to cover for their more trad tory friends, but the establishment will always go with right wing alternatives over left wing ones for obvious reasons.

ETA : As for the current political class being corrupt and nepotistic, of course that's true, and UKIP are very much in that class. How people can't see through it is a little weird.
 
Rutita1 said:
No I didn't actually and don't give a flying fuck whether you like it or not, so fuck off being such a condescending prick... you continue baiting and abusing. You seriously aren't as important as you seem to believe you are.
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Just re-posting for emphasis. Try learning some new tricks ffs butchers.
 
Nylock said:
...Our politicical classes are almost universally despised...
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Shame that doesn't seem to translate onto voting when it matters, for example in 2010:
57% of the electorate voted for Con/LD/Lab
35% of the electorate didn't vote
8% of the electorate voted for other parties
Of these the most popular party on the left were the Greens but they only got 265,243 votes (0.6% of the electorate)
 
classicdish said:
Shame that doesn't seem to translate onto voting when it matters, for example in 2010:
57% of the electorate voted for Con/LD/Lab
35% of the electorate didn't vote
8% of the electorate voted for other parties
Of these the most popular party on the left were the Greens but they only got 265,243 votes (0.6% of the electorate)
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Going by the percentages:
23.4% of the total electorate voted Conservative
18.8% of the total electorate voted Labour
14.9% of the total electorate voted LibDem
7.8% of the total electorate voted for others

So in percentage terms of total electorate versus non vote 35% share:
vs Conservative vote share of 23.4% = 11.6% more non-votes
vs Labour vote share of 18.8% = 16.2% more non-voters
vs LibDem vote share of 14.9% = 20.1% more non-voters
vs Others vote share of 7.8% = 27.2% more non-voters

In numbers:
Total electorate: 45,597,461
Total who voted: 29,687,604
Total non-voters: 15,909,857

Total Conservative Votes: 10,700,000
Total Labour Votes: 8,600,000
Total LibDem Votes: 6,800,000
Total Others: 3,600,000 (actually rounded up from a remainder of 3,587,604)

So going from these figures (no shows/non-votes vs votes cast):
9.1 million MORE people didn't show than those who voted LibDem
7.3 million MORE people didn't show than those who voted Labour
5.2 million MORE people didn't show than those who voted Conservative
5.1 million MORE people didn't show than those who voted LibDem & Others combined.
0.5 million MORE people didn't vote than those who voted LibDem & Labour combined.

Only 1.2 million more voters voted for BOTH LibDem & Conservative combined than those who didn't vote at all.

If people felt that their vote mattered, why is it that the amount of non-voters outweighs those who vote for the government of the day? If voter apathy/disgust is the non-problem you seem to be making it out to be, why are political types worried about it?

It would be of interest to see how many of those who turned out to vote in 2010 were 'habitual' voters (those who always vote and always vote for the same party), how many of those who turned out were of the 'it's our duty to vote' types, how many of those who turned out to vote did so but under sufferance (the 'no-one I approve of is standing but i'm going to vote against xyz' type/'i'm going to hold my nose while I cast my vote' type), how many of those who turned out did so enthusiastically as they were all gung-ho about the forthcoming buttfucking and how many of those who turned out to vote were first-time voters. It would also be of interest to see how many of those who turned out in 2010 will not do so in 2015.

Turnout was up 3.7% in 2010 versus the 2005 GE, how much of that was the LD's and Tories smelling blood in the water and making a proper push to get their vote out? Even then they only managed to beat the effective 'none of the above' vote by 2.6% of the total electorate. That's fucking shit in anyone's book.

If voters turn out 'when it counts' then why do 35% of them not show for when it's supposed to properly count in the general election?
 
Nylock said:
If voter apathy/disgust is the non-problem you seem to be making it out to be, why are political types worried about it?
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I never said it is a non-problem. I raised the question about your statement "Our politicical classes are almost universally despised"

I agree a 65% turnout is very poor - the UK has the lowest turnouts in the EU. By contrast Belgium gets 90% turnouts and many others are in the mid 80s% http://www.idea.int/publications/voter_turnout_weurope/upload/Full_Reprot.pdf

I also agree people don't think that highly of politicians: What do people really think of politicians?

However 'Almost universally' suggests something like 90% plus of people and I was pointing out that 57% of the electorate still vote for the 'big three'.

Not that many people seem to be that interested in helping organise anything better by way of coherent alternatives or actually going out and voting for the alternatives if and when they are offered.
 
you can still vote for someone you hate, provided you hate them and their party less than the alternative....

However, in the interests of not provoking a statistical pissing contest, I'll concede that 'almost universally' may have been a bit strong of me. Nonetheless, you can't deny that a significant proportion of the electorate do not trust, or even like, those in power in westminster and that this proportion is a pretty high one (58% rating their honesty/integrity as low/very low from that linked article, for instance).
 
Anne Marie Waters is now a Ukip candidate.

Dispatch International
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was launched at the “2012 International Conference for Free Speech and Human Rights in Brussels” – a European counter-Jihad conference where Fjordman, among others, participated. Fjordman was a major influence upon Anders Breivik. This is company that only an extremist would keep.

Dispatch International published Anne Marie Waters’s resignation from Labour alongside an article praising EDL leader, Tommy Robinson as “the most courageous and cleverest working-class leader England has produced for many decades”.

This juxtaposition is presumably not as unwelcome as you might suppose to Waters, who has developed a continued dialogue and relationship with EDL supporters via twitter.
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http://socialistunity.com/anne-marie-waters-happened-next/

More details here: http://www.islamophobiawatch.co.uk/anne-marie-waters-and-dispatch-international-one-more-time/

Example of her loony writing:

In Europe, thanks largely to the left-supported concept of multiculturalism, races and religious groups again live separately in ghettoised communities, Islamic madrassas teach children to separate themselves from non-Muslims, and Muslims are increasingly governed – particularly in family matters – by a network of sharia tribunals that operate outside of the laws of the mainstream, overwhelmingly white, secular majority. In the UK, a disturbing segregation of Muslim prisoners is also developing.
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http://www.d-intl.com/2013/09/15/left-wing-racists-have-restored-segregation/?lang=en
 
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