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Ukip - why are they gaining support?

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/...ts-into-comments-by-ukip-councillor-1-5712675

Wednesday 5.30pm: A UKIP councillor is under investigation after reportedly telling children in care that they were ‘takers’ from society.

Gordon Gillick (74), who represents his home ward of Waldersey, Wisbech, also asked the youngsters when they would ‘start giving back to society’.

A dozen complaints have been made over his ‘shameful’ comments which came as three teens in care described their experiences to councillors.

They presented a short documentary describing their difficulty adapting to new surrroundings after years in foster homes.

The session was intended to brief members of Cambridgeshire County Council on their responsibilities as ‘corporate parents’ to protect children from abuse.

But councillors were stunned when Mr. Gillick interrupted the teens and asked: “How does it feel to be takers from the system?”

He then walked out of the session, leaving the teens visibly upset.
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J Ed said:
http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/...ts-into-comments-by-ukip-councillor-1-5712675
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that's probably the worst 'political' position i've ever come across.
J Ed said:
http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/...ts-into-comments-by-ukip-councillor-1-5712675
Click to expand...

there has been huge forore over a range of things said by Ukip people recently. that one seems to be almost slipping through the net, but -for me -is by far the most despicable of the lot. what sort of pathetic cunt does says something like that to children?
 
J Ed said:
http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/...ts-into-comments-by-ukip-councillor-1-5712675
Wednesday 5.30pm: A UKIP councillor is under investigation after reportedly telling children in care that they were ‘takers’ from society.

Gordon Gillick (74), who represents his home ward of Waldersey, Wisbech, also asked the youngsters when they would ‘start giving back to society’.

A dozen complaints have been made over his ‘shameful’ comments which came as three teens in care described their experiences to councillors.

They presented a short documentary describing their difficulty adapting to new surrroundings after years in foster homes.

The session was intended to brief members of Cambridgeshire County Council on their responsibilities as ‘corporate parents’ to protect children from abuse.

But councillors were stunned when Mr. Gillick interrupted the teens and asked: “How does it feel to be takers from the system?”

He then walked out of the session, leaving the teens visibly upset.
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I shouldn't be surprised that the local UKIP group leader supports this oxygen thief but its still disgusting that the guy is somehow making Cllr Gillick out to be some sort of champion against Political Correctness....

Cllr Peter Reeve, the UKIP group leader, said he had not been at the meeting but supported his colleague.

He said: “As long as he’s being honest and transparent and saying what he believes, I’ve no problem with that.

“It may or may not be that I agree with him or that people find his views offensive, but I would rather a councillor is honest than cover up their beliefs because they are worried about it not being politically correct.”
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tumblr_md3o6aXW941r5vpk0o1_500.jpg


:mad::(
 
I pitched a question, via a FB admin on a politics page, to the effect of "what excuses will UKIP supporters have this time?" in relation to the Peterborough matter.

Here, in no special order, is a list of what emerged.

i) Don't care.

ii) Doesn't matter because he's not important (being one of a very small % of membership who are actually elected)

iii) A variant on "doesn't represent views" despite having been presumably selected as an election candidate precisely in part because he does represent views.

iv) Don't know full context, when there's a fair bit of context.

v) It's a new party, when it's not THAT new.

vi) The cherry on the cake from the UKIP leader on the council himself, that it's better to say this kind of thing than keep silent for fear of political correctness (which I'm given to understand has actually gone mad)
 
Batboy said:
labour lost votes to the BNP via white working class voters in places like Barking and Dagenham. I know I was there, I can assure you it was absolutely real and helped by the fact that horror show Margaret Hodge is he Labour MP.
The labour party majority decreased by around 40% from he start of her tenure.

Ukip are pulling in voters from both sides, predominantly white voters but equally some Asian voters too.
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Heh missed this reply so I can't find the original post now it was so long ago, but I'm not sure you've really taken on what I said about Labour losing votes due to people stopping voting rather than defecting (although of course there are some defections). Barking fits this pattern well - you say that Hodge's majority slumped - it did - but so did turnouts in general: in 2001 and 2005 turnouts were 45% and 50% - compared to over 70% as recently as 1992.

Also - re 'where do the BNPs votes come from?' - the Conservative Party was getting 5 figure votes in Barking through the 80s and up to 92 - these have now disappeared and I think you're more likely to find disaffected tories in the BNP vote that emerged in the 2000s than Labour (although that doesn't mean they aren't working class voters of course).
 
Honest?

Destroying the confidence of vulnerable children is honesty?

This wanker deserves to be sued into oblivion for this.
 
Tbf its no wonder pc went mad dealing like cunts like that :mad:
I can see what the cunt is thinking but
A ITS NOT THE KIDS FUCKING FAULT
B ITS THE COUNCILS DUTY TO LOOK AFTER CHILDREN In that situation if they are having problems its the councils duty to sort it out so they can stop being a burden on the state
C Its not the kids faul
D kill your awful wife and then yourself as your a burden on the planet
 
Actually if yourcunt like that taking him on his terms and beating him with his own terms is exactly the thing to do Duty, Responsability to those less fortunate, common decency are all words that are favorites of that sort of person so shoving them down his throat and making them choke on them seems exactly the right thing to do.
Its much harder for him to evade and talk about pc gone mad if you take the ball into his playground.
Tackling him on behaving like a decent human being is being pc gone mad.:mad:

Calling him out on his failure of duty and responsability as a councillior and a failure of conduct and decorum is much harder for the git to evade.
 
co-op said:
Heh missed this reply so I can't find the original post now it was so long ago, but I'm not sure you've really taken on what I said about Labour losing votes due to people stopping voting rather than defecting (although of course there are some defections). Barking fits this pattern well - you say that Hodge's majority slumped - it did - but so did turnouts in general: in 2001 and 2005 turnouts were 45% and 50% - compared to over 70% as recently as 1992.

Also - re 'where do the BNPs votes come from?' - the Conservative Party was getting 5 figure votes in Barking through the 80s and up to 92 - these have now disappeared and I think you're more likely to find disaffected tories in the BNP vote that emerged in the 2000s than Labour (although that doesn't mean they aren't working class voters of course).
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To have taken 12 seats from labour in Barking they would have had to appeal to labour voters. If they didn't they couldn't have won - and they did. Their slogan for these campaigns was "We are the Labour Party your grandfather voted for"
 
butchersapron said:
To have taken 12 seats from labour in Barking they would have had to appeal to labour voters. If they didn't they couldn't have won - and they did. Their slogan for these campaigns was "We are the Labour Party your grandfather voted for"
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TBH I can't really join in here since Batboy's post quoting me is from some time ago (I missed it) and my original quote was obviously commenting on something he or someone else posted, but that was so long ago I can't find it. I don't think I'd have ever argued that the BNP take no votes from Labour, just that the standard argument - that 'this is where the BNP's vote comes from' - doesn't hold up that well because it ignores the large number of ex-Labour voters who have stopped voting. When I look at Barking results what jumps out is that the tories were getting 10-12000 votes there until 1997 and my hunch would be that BNP votes are as likely to come from there as anywhere (<unevidenced conclusion I know).

Lastly, my memory is that the "We are the Labour Party your Grandfather voted for" slogan was rolled out in 2010 when the BNP got ambitious and decided that Labour were there for the taking so launched a head on attack - and of course that was also the year that they got wiped out on the council, so as a slogan it failed. But again this is based on my memory (I don't remember the slogan before).
 
There's two sets of elections in Barking here - the locals and the general. The latter may well have seen tories voting BNP (although the idea that tories are natural BNP voters ready to switch over at the drop of a hat doesn't really stand up). But if you look at the general election voting figures for the tories in the period from when the BNP first got their toehold they didn't drop off, which is surely what you expect to happen if the tory-->BNP scenario was accurate. In fact, at the height of the BNP challenge it actually went up and came close to its pre-92 height. The BNP vote would not appear to be coming from them on this basis. The party whose vote did go down whilst the BNPs went up was labours - and this on low turnouts remember, so it's unlikely it was due to wholly fresh voters or previous abstainers.

And in the locals, to win there was no other way than to get labour voters, otherwise the tories would have been the ones already winning these seats - and they weren't. I really do think it's undeniable that a large part of the BNP vote in urban areas - and i think barking is a very good example - were traditional labour voters. Every single analysis - hostile or friendly to the BNP, academic or anecdotal has come to the same conclusion to. And i can see people making the same mistakes about the UKIP vote as made at the time of the BNP's growth. Which isn't to say that the one maps directly onto the other but that their are similar themes and similar dangers to getting them wrong.

(No need to do a long or detailed reply or anything btw, i just meant to post that at the time but the conversation sort of petered out).
 
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where to said:
that's probably the worst 'political' position i've ever come across.


there has been huge forore over a range of things said by Ukip people recently. that one seems to be almost slipping through the net, but -for me -is by far the most despicable of the lot. what sort of pathetic cunt does says something like that to children?
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Someone who's so selfish, self-righteous and publicly pious that he and his wife had ten kids of their own, happily took money from the state to help raise them, and then conveniently forgot that fact when he wants to shit all over kids who never got a say in how their lives unfolded.
 
Certainly it's easy to see how labour tribalism would make UKIP a more likely preference than the tories.
butchersapron said:
I can find Goodwin putting it as far back as the 2005 general election.
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it's astonishing, I really wouldn't have seen UKIP as a party of Clause 4, a substantial welfare state and high taxes for high earners, but one lives and learns. Thanks again :)
 
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