UK music industry, bands, work permits and Brexit

[littlebabyjesus]

It probably could have been on the cards tbf. If the anti-brexit lot had got behind Labour's soft brexit plan it could have got over the line one way or another.

When? Labour's first reaction right at the start of this sorry process was to accept May's line that 'honouring the referendum' meant ending free movement. There never was a Labour soft brexit plan that didn't involve some form of immigrant-bashing.

 

[killer b]

Yeah, it's all the fault of the remainers.

Not all. But they definitely played a significant role.

Either way, the idea it couldn't be any other way is obviously total rot.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not purely. But they definitely played a significant role.

Either way, the idea it couldn't be any other way is obviously total rot.

There was a stinking inevitability to the way this has gone due to the boost it has given to the reactionary forces that were brexit's primary advocates. Brexit was never going to be anything other than a lurch to the nationalist right. It is naive to think otherwise - any hope for a 'softer' outcome was/is simply a hope for damage-limitation.

 

[Wilf]

It probably could have been on the cards tbf. If the anti-brexit lot had got behind Labour's soft brexit plan it could have got over the line one way or another.

If she was allowed her time again, I suspect Theresa May might have backed it. I'm not sure about that claim tbh, but if Labour had entered into 'dialogue' with her much earlier - and properly got behind the idea themselves - there might have been a chance. Needless to say they'd have had to do it in a way that she could present it as her plan and with just enough 'true brexit' in it so she didn't go down in party history as the Conservative's own Ramsay MacDonald. But with May's backing some version of soft brexit + workers rights could well have got through.

But in the end, Labour preferred to play parliamentary games and hope the chaos would deliver them to power. Well, that went well...

 

[discokermit]

i voted for brexit purely to make middle class liberals cry and i must say that so far it has been very good for that.

 

[Wilf]

There was a stinking inevitability to the way this has gone due to the boost it has given to the reactionary forces that were brexit's primary advocates. Brexit was never going to be anything other than a lurch to the nationalist right. It is naive to think otherwise - any hope for a 'softer' outcome was/is simply a hope for damage-limitation.

I must agree with the underlined because by not voting it was implicitly my own position (there was no way I could vote for the EU, but the Leave campaign was being driven by the right). But that doesn't mean there was no chance something different might have emerged. That should have started with Labour, as they did, saying they honoured the referendum result - and sticking with that. Everything thereafter should have focused on winkling out a social democratic flavoured leave agreement. Something they could have taken back to Labour/working class constituencies.

No guarantee Labour could have achieved that, after all Tories + DUP had a majority. But actually going for it and not equivocating every step of the way was the only thing that had any kind of political logic and integrity.

 

[Wilf]

i voted for brexit purely to make middle class liberals cry and i must say that so far it has been very good for that.

 

[Wilf]

I know we've been round the block on this, but fucking hell if you think of the twists and turns Labour went through: 2016, Corbyn announced Labour would back remain, but made it clear he was barely convinced himself... ref takes place, Labour backs article 50... then it's the 6 tests... then there's a few versions of 'we will announce our policy after the shadow cabinet meeting/conference vote'... vote against May's deal... half hearted attempts to go for a 'worker's/environmental brexit'... assorted faffing and legal challenges in parliament/courts... ever present attempts at a people's vote... 2019 gen election 'Corbyn will renegociate, but doesn't know if he'd vote for his own deal.'.... Sir Keir, 'our Brexit policy was great' Vs 'GET BREXIT DONE!'

 

[kabbes]

You still haven't really grasped what I'm saying, have you?

But for a significant number of those who voted for the tories last year, Brexit is for keeping out foreigners. That was Johnson's pitch, and it worked. Never mind that there is no convincing evidence that such people form any kind of majority. Even if they did, of course, that wouldn't automatically make them right, but the political project currently under way is that which was given energy by and claims legitimacy from the referendum result. And anyone who thought any other kind of brexit that wasn't an exercise in immigrant-bashing was ever on the cards is frankly a fool.

Some voted anti-foreigner therefore what? What does that tell you about everybody else? What about the ones that didn’t vote Brexit for that reason? What’s your explanation for what they were hoping to get out of it? Do you think they were doing so for no reason at all?

 

[sim667]

Remainers didn't know what leaving would be like, either, and still nobody knows, because we're still in the transition period. Brexiters didn't really know what they were voting for when choosing to leave the EU, and remainers didn't know what they were voting against when choosing not to leave the EU.

Remainers objectively knew it would be more restrictive, leavers subjectively thought it would be more free. Thats the difference. There was never an algorithm for leaving the EU that would mean retaining the same freedom of movements and goods, and the outcomes of both of those restrictions in their varying degrees were always patently going to be problematic despite whether leavers had objectively considered that or not.

 

[scifisam]

Remainers objectively knew it would be more restrictive, leavers subjectively thought it would be more free. Thats the difference. There was never an algorithm for leaving the EU that would mean retaining the same freedom of movements and goods, and the outcomes of both of those restrictions in their varying degrees were always patently going to be problematic despite whether leavers had objectively considered that or not.

Leavers thought movement within the EU would be more free? Huh? I must be misreading.

 

[sim667]

Leavers thought movement within the EU would be more free? Huh? I must be misreading.

I haven’t said they thought movement wouldbe more free, I’ve said that they thought it would generally more free, I.e. “not bound by unelected bureacrats”. But y’know, just make up what you want to read....

 

[scifisam]

I haven’t said they thought movement wouldbe more free, I’ve said that they thought it would generally more free, I.e. “not bound by unelected bureacrats”. But y’know, just make up what you want to read....

I'm not making anything up. You said leavers thought movement would be more free, and now you're saying that it would be more free “not bound by unelected bureacrats.” So that is saying that leavers thought movement would be more free. According to you, they bought into a pie in the sky ideal where people could move around countries without bureacrats having any say in it.

I don't think most leave voters actually thought movement within the EU would be more free after Brexit, though. Perhaps some leave voters could correct me.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I think sim's use of free was wider than freedom of movement - so free of bureaucracy or an additional layer(s) of govt as opposed to free of borders.

I voted leave and that was in large part because of two things - that the EU has an unelected executive; and because I think smaller states/govts are weaker and therefore more susceptible to pressure from below. Although the overriding reason I voted leave was to tell the political class to fuck off, which imo was the main driver generally

 

[editor]

. Although the overriding reason I voted leave was to tell the political class to fuck off, which imo was the main driver generally

And from that we've ended up with Tories in the strongest position they've been for a long time, xenophobia on the rise, huge uncertainty for small businesses and a fairly bleak prospect for touring musicians. That showed 'em, eh?

 

[Proper Tidy]

And from that we've ended up with Tories in the strongest position they've been for a long time, xenophobia on the rise, huge uncertainty for small businesses and a fairly bleak prospect for touring musicians. That showed 'em, eh?

Yes

 

[discokermit]

the musicians bit is like the cherry on the top.

 

[editor]

the musicians bit is like the cherry on the top.

 

[scifisam]

I think sim's use of free was wider than freedom of movement - so free of bureaucracy or an additional layer(s) of govt as opposed to free of borders.

OK, but we were specifically talking about whether freedom of movement within the EU would be easier after Brexit. He claimed people though it would be freer after we leave.

And moving between countries that you're now not in a union with will always require extra involvement from bureaucrats, not less.

The number of people who voted for Brexit due to thinking it would make it easier to move between states must be really, really low.

 

[discokermit]

View attachment 199938

wait til they find out about all the european bands that won't be playing their local. that'll wipe the smiles off their faces. lol.

 

[editor]

wait til they find out about all the european bands that won't be playing their local. that'll wipe the smiles off their faces. lol.

It'll be like this every night in the Old Xenophobe Arms. None of that foreign culture muck. Proper British music by British bands for British people. You'll love it.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Fairly sure that's some sunderland fans rather than a gig or other musical event tbh

 

[discokermit]

i dunno. you paint a rosy picture but will there be enough british bands to fill in for all the french, spanish, polish, german and italian bands that will be kept out through having to do a bit more paperwork?

 

[discokermit]

lol.

 

[editor]

i dunno. you paint a rosy picture but will there be enough british bands to fill in for all the french, spanish, polish, german and italian bands that will be kept out through having to do a bit more paperwork?

If you're going to try and trash this thread with your moronic trolling, at least do some basic research.

 

[discokermit]

hahaha! the last decent tune to come out of europe was ryan paris with dolce vita.

 

[editor]

hahaha! the last decent tune to come out of europe was ryan paris with dolce vita.

And with that bit of casual xenophobia your thread ban is complete.

 

[Big Bertha]

Fairly sure that's some sunderland fans rather than a gig or other musical event tbh

'Sunderland!' - Sunderland FanChants

Simple but effective, good for a Sunderland ringtone.

www.fanchants.com

Probably not a bad thing to keep this out of Europe tbf

 

[Wilf]

i dunno. you paint a rosy picture but will there be enough british bands to fill in for all the french, spanish, polish, german and italian bands that will be kept out through having to do a bit more paperwork?

I'll have to dust off me 12 bar blues and do me bit. It'll be like being an ARP warden in the war.

 

[Wilf]

Editor, clearly DK was gunning for you there, but you were giving a bit back. Perhaps a bit too trigger happy? Anyway, I know we aren't supposed to discuss bans and it is your site and all that, but still.