Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Maybe you could take on board the feedback people give instead of seeing every challenge as an existential threat.
Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?
- Thread starter The Flying Pig
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Maybe you could take on board the feedback people give instead of seeing every challenge as an existential threat.
Those who want to engage and explore rather than aggravate. I reckon.
Athos
Well-Known Member
And how would that be moderated? Because unless you limit who can contribute to thread in the LGBT+ forum, the same will happen there. You'll get two of this! And, as soon as you do restrict it, you'll get two groups talking to themselves, and past each other.
Maybe common sense will prevail and it wouldn't need much moderation. Like health and sexuality?
Jonti
what the dormouse said
"You are not alone" was, I think, the sentiment. I hope so anyway. Why not take it that way in your reply (if any) and see where it goes.
well it'd be less alienating to those who avoid politics
maybe people would post about things less aggressively
it shouldnt be restricted > primarily because enabling that would force people to divulge why they should be granted access which is asking them to prove something.
one has to be braced for robust argument. I'm not sure why you would want to avoid that unless your ideas dont hold under scrutiny and you know it.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Are you new here?
Just alarmingly hopefull.Or hopeless...
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
Its frustration. This issue goes round and round in circles with much heat being generated but little light and with each spiral it becomes more bad tempered and more polarised. I feel that many trans women do not understand what it is like to be AFAB, and to be comfortable in their gender identity, but uncomfortable in their gender role.
A real woman is slim and beautiful, has a dashing husband with a solid income, which she sexually satisfies to ensure he doesnt stray, two point four naturally birthed breastfed children, takes appropriate precautions in dress and travel to avoid sexual violence, keeps a lovely home, makes career sacrifices for her children and cares for elderly or infirm relatives with narry a word of complaint.
This archetype on which "woman" is based dont work for cis women as much as they dont work for trans women.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
I understand this. I don't agree completely with you, but my perspective is different.
Much of what you just said I can relate to. Believe it or not I feel a lot of the same pressures on me and always have to some extent. I won't be alone in that, in fact I know I'm not.
Maybe even on the looks trans women feel it stronger because we have a narrower path to tread and are criticised from all sides, and have our identity erased of we take a step wrong. Being accused of having male anger when we express any kind of passion in our voice is a common one.
I think most trans women are just invisible. The most visible ones are like me, still transitioning and still finding their way.
Trans women are as diverse as cis women. Some of them want to be the little housewife or whatever other cliché but others are out there in queer communities bucking every stereotype they can find. And everything in between. I could talk lots about this but I'd be attacked from 40 different angles and I don't have the stamina today I'm afraid.
Happy to talk off grid though, just not here.
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comrade spurski
Well-Known Member
FYI
Weird to use the term "beautiful" young girl.
Not trying to nit pick but beautiful is kind of irrelevant when discussing abuse.
Apologies if I am misunderstanding it.
It was wrong to punch the woman but the woman was equally wrong to be physically restraining someone else (which the original) video in the OP seems to show.
The whole episode is a god send for those who want to mock feminists, transgender people and the "left".
Referring to feminists who are not respectful or accepting of transgender women as Nazi's or Fascists is inaccurate and a nonsense imho.
For anyone to disrespect someone who identifies as transgender is shitty.
I do not pretend to have an answer but as far as I can tell identity politics missed the point and was divisive in the 1980s and 1990s and continues to be so today.
Too many want to concerntrate on our differences rather than on what unifies us. In some ways it's depressing (politically speaking) because if those who want equality can not even discuss, listen and debate in a respectful manner what hope is there of winning those who are "ignorant" of the issues and the discrimination it causes?
editor
hiraethified
I think you might be better off posting this in the feedback forum. My instinct is that it might prove to be catnip to the trolls and point provers, but I could be wrong.
Ok. Hear ya. But kind of sick of the trolls and point provers; hence the suggestion of a new forum...
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
At one level I think this is fine - and why should I have anything against any particular group/social division having their own forum. More than that, why should I as a middle aged heterosexual bloke feel the need to pronounce on this (and of course any other forum around other bits of identity). It's about having a bit of self awareness, a sense that people need a place to develop ideas, experiences (you can probably guess I'm desperately avoiding the term 'safe space'
). But then... I'm against identarian politics, against intersectionality - and plenty of other things that have formed out of the official multiculturalism and equality policies now embedded in universities, local government and the whole twatty layer of consultancies and the rest. I believe class politics has the possibility of building working class responses in all the different areas of our lives - a genuine anticapitalism. But that needs to put things back together rather than pull them apart into self owned and policed 'spokes'. Should say straight away that the problems of intersectionality don't have to crop up in having different forums - on urban or wherever. And again, what's it got to do with me as that middles aged white hetero bloke? But ultimately I'd see the process of building a sustainable working class resistance as the starting point.
In all that contradictory musing above - the notion of having a bit of respect for people who have different social experiences to yourself + the need to pull things together rather than apart, there are probably a few of the contemporary dilemmas of the left. Then there are groups within groups that have gone so far into identarianism that they are never to engage with working class life. It's not just putting humpty dumpty together again.
Clair De Lune
Apocalypse cocktails
Nobbin n sobbing seems to manage to bring out the best in people...people are certainly less dickish in there than on other forums. I wonder if an LGBT+forum may be able to have the same levels of care and respect.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I very much applaud your initial attempts to relate this to a green perspective, by putting it in Recycle Your Stuff.
I very much applaud your initial attempts to relate this to a green perspective, by putting it in Recycle Your Stuff.
Yeah, fucked up there
The Flying Pig
Well-Known Member
I started the thread and it was not an attack on anybody. It was a WTF? I really had no idea this weird and wonderful world of deep hatred of some within these acronyms and abbreviations groups existed. I have no idea what some of the contributors are talking about. You would need to be deeply inbedded in their world or have a dictionary to help understand the words let alone what they mean. As i said before I just feel deep pity for all involved and a saddness of the deep rift that is obvious to all.
The Flying Pig
Well-Known Member
Why do you need to explain what cis is?Who's retreating? I just don't want to have my face rubbed in the shit every time I discuss the issues that affect me.
Talking about my own identity shouldn't have to be combative every time. I don't see it as political - any more than being gay or being straight is political. sure there are political aspects, but - do you know how many times a day I have to explain what cis means?
Jonti
what the dormouse said
You might enjoy The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee by Jared Diamond....
Give me a break on the Bonobo thing, it was very late and the trains were shot. Also I did edit to say I'd overreacted a tad and saw the positive point you were making. And we both seem to be agreed that there are important differences with the human condition. [E2A] Howls/Bonobo, just got itI'm slow this morning.
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Volume One
New Member
So another meeting got cancelled after the venue came under fire from Trans activists.
The title of the planned event was 'Attacks on Thinking in the Age of LGBTQWIIAP+'
"Led by: Anne-Marie Cummins and Bob Withers
The recent proliferation of sexual identities signals that we have reached a ‘transgender tipping point’: the entry into mainstream culture of multiple sexual identities organised around some notion of gender fluidity, intersexuality or transsexuality. But while things are being opened up they also seem to be closing down. The celebration of the rainbow and medical advances has a disturbing underbelly that is becoming increasingly apparent to academics and psychotherapists.
Researchers have been attacked viciously for raising legitimate questions, such as the feminist philosopher Rachel Tuval for suggesting that there are similarities between transracialism and trans-sexuality. At the same time psychological thinking about individual trans-peoples’ experiences is seen as increasingly unwelcome by trans-activists in a culture that still stigmatises mental illness but affirms the medicalisation of trans-phenomena. People are being shepherded into hormonal and surgical treatment while research into the growing number of those dissatisfied with its results is lobbied to be closed down.
Has the social unconscious been ‘queered’? If there is something going on in the wider social matrix about the refusal of hard gender differences, what might this be about? And what are the consequences for us as a society and the individuals concerned?"
The title of the planned event was 'Attacks on Thinking in the Age of LGBTQWIIAP+'
"Led by: Anne-Marie Cummins and Bob Withers
The recent proliferation of sexual identities signals that we have reached a ‘transgender tipping point’: the entry into mainstream culture of multiple sexual identities organised around some notion of gender fluidity, intersexuality or transsexuality. But while things are being opened up they also seem to be closing down. The celebration of the rainbow and medical advances has a disturbing underbelly that is becoming increasingly apparent to academics and psychotherapists.
Researchers have been attacked viciously for raising legitimate questions, such as the feminist philosopher Rachel Tuval for suggesting that there are similarities between transracialism and trans-sexuality. At the same time psychological thinking about individual trans-peoples’ experiences is seen as increasingly unwelcome by trans-activists in a culture that still stigmatises mental illness but affirms the medicalisation of trans-phenomena. People are being shepherded into hormonal and surgical treatment while research into the growing number of those dissatisfied with its results is lobbied to be closed down.
Has the social unconscious been ‘queered’? If there is something going on in the wider social matrix about the refusal of hard gender differences, what might this be about? And what are the consequences for us as a society and the individuals concerned?"
If it feels good, do it.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
New borns are assessed anatomically almost first thing. Hence the assessed female at birth acronym. This is usually all that's needed, but not always. Sometimes it becomes apparent the medicos have been fooled.
I think the expression that best serves your meaning is natal women.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
'Fooled' eh? Those crafty darned babies.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
That's not me saying that. My quote was from News Medical in the article (linked to previously) at Causes of Gender Dysphoria.
Why do you think it implies babies are crafty?
Why do you think it implies babies are crafty?
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