Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[Sea Star]

I do remember drunkenly looking for a reliable source last night, but whether it's true or not it seems somewhat moot!

It's a diversion. And it serves the purpose that any trans women taking this issue on will end up accused of defending child killers and rapists no matter what we say. Which is why I'm not engaging directly with those that want a fight over this, or those who want a sound bite out of me. I've been quoted out of context in the fucking New statesman so I learned the hard way to stay away from the anti trans fanatics.

 

[pengaleng]

in future i am just gonna make all of my stats up because if you post sources you get accused of all kinds of shit, is just easier to lie about it.

 

[Sea Star]

in future i am just gonna make all of my stats up because if you post sources you get accused of shit, is just easier to lie about it.

Anti trans campaigners only ever lie about stats

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

It's a diversion. And it serves the purpose that any trans women taking this issue on will end up accused of defending child killers and rapists no matter what we say. Which is why I'm not engaging directly with those that want a fight over this, or those who want a sound bite out of me. I've been quoted out of context in the fucking New statesman so I learned the hard way to stay away from the anti trans fanatics.

Oh god not that shit rag.

 

[Sea Star]

Oh god not that shit rag.

They called me a "trans activist" and a "minor politician" hilarious.

 

[Pickman's model]

Anti trans campaigners only ever lie about stats

I think you'll find they can lie about other things too

 

[smokedout]

Making people think about their prejudices by lying? Defending trans people by attacking lesbians? That'd be pretty fucking homophobic, too. You don't get a free pass for homophobia just because you're trans. You seem to think that's fine (and you're lying about what people on this thread have said, too), but I don't. I'd rather pretend to myself that it was an honest mistake.

THIS is why I didn't have the emotional energy for this thread.

It is frustrating, but perhaps it will help people empathise with the countless example of misrepresented studies and dodgy tabloid scare stories that have been used on this thread to demonise trans people.

 

[smokedout]

FUCK YOURSELF YOU LITTLE SKANK

Seriously?

scifisam I hadn't seen the subsequent conversation, I probably wouldn't have bothered with my last post if I had, sorry if it felt like a pile on.

 

[Vintage Paw]

who is it safe for? - I'm struggling here as it is.

It's pretty safe for cis men, since they're the only group whose gender and/or gender identity isn't being debated as existing or not.

The misogynists amongst them must be laughing their fucking arses off at all of this.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

It is safe unless you suffer from high BP I doot

 

[JimW]

It's pretty safe for cis men, since they're the only group whose gender and/or gender identity isn't being debated as existing or not.
...

Seriously don't get this, gender's a system and if you're questioning one part you're questioning all of it surely? That's leaving aside the people who've posted rejecting the notion of cis which I haven't thought through but aren't particularly bothered about myself at first blush.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Seriously don't get this, gender's a system and if you're questioning one part you're questioning all of it surely? That's leaving aside the people who've posted rejecting the notion of cis which I haven't thought through but aren't particularly bothered about myself at first blush.

I was being flippant. I've made the point previously about systems and all that, and about men, women, cis, trans, all being subject to the bullshit of patriarchy.

 

[pengaleng]

Seriously?

scifisam I hadn't seen the subsequent conversation, I probably wouldn't have bothered with my last post if I had, sorry if it felt like a pile on.

am probably sorry about that one actually

the safe space for lesbians thing just comes across as 'we were right about these people' no need for that shit

 

[Jonti]

I've learned a fair old bit from this thread. Still feel that if natal women want to have penis free zones that's no-ones business but their own.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Okay, there have been more reports since yesterday even just about new posts. After discussion I’m going to close the thread for a week.

 

[elbows]

Hello everyone. What news have we missed during the thread pause?

I havent been paying much attention, though I do have two stories to share:

Womens Aid starting a review process to see about self-IDing trans women should be allowed to work in their refuges:

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/02/0...rn-ban-on-self-identifying-transgender-staff/

UK government service manual on gender and sex has been updated. I'm not sure what the wording of the old version was but this one says avoid using pronouns or using titles to guess gender.

Gender or sex - Service Manual - GOV.UK

 

[Pickman's model]

Hello everyone. What news have we missed during the thread pause?

I havent been paying much attention, though I do have two stories to share:

Womens Aid starting a review process to see about self-IDing trans women should be allowed to work in their refuges:

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/02/0...rn-ban-on-self-identifying-transgender-staff/

UK government service manual on gender and sex has been updated. I'm not sure what the wording of the old version was but this one says avoid using pronouns or using titles to guess gender.

Gender or sex - Service Manual - GOV.UK

‘Transgender women are welcome in the Ladies’ Pond,’ say Hampstead Heath swimmers

 

[weepiper]

A Transgender Woman Has Exclusively Breastfed Her Baby, & It's A Dream Come True

Not so much a dream come true for the poor infant being selfishly used as a human guinea pig fed drugs specifically contra-indicated in breastfeeding women. Or the actual mother, who is almost completely invisible in this article.

 

[ska invita]

Hello everyone. What news have we missed during the thread pause?

If anyone has news of a Labour ruling on the dispute in Hastings (?) CLP, or any other Labour clarification on position of what constitutes transphobia could they post it please (and tag me - I cant keep up with this thread). Id appreciate it.

 

[elbows]

A Transgender Woman Has Exclusively Breastfed Her Baby, & It's A Dream Come True

Not so much a dream come true for the poor infant being selfishly used as a human guinea pig fed drugs specifically contra-indicated in breastfeeding women. Or the actual mother, who is almost completely invisible in this article.

The mother being invisible is an automatic consequence of the article being solely based on medical research papers, the human aspect doesnt tend to feature in such things. edited to add - because of their narrow focus and the need to anonymise patient-specific info.

As for being contra-indicted in breastfeeding women, if you are talking about Domperidone, it is unlicensed for such purposes but has been used by women in general who are trying to increase milk production.

eg:

http://www.colchesterhospital.nhs.uk/patient_information/maternity/763n4 Domperidone.pdf

Indications for use

Domperidone can be used for women who are breastfeeding but are experiencing a temporary reduction in milk supply. Several studies have indicated that it may be beneficial for women who are temporarily unable to provide adequate milk to supply the daily nutritional intake of their baby. Please note that this is an unlicensed use for this medication and therefore GP's may need to review the literature available before prescribing.

If you were referring to a different drug, please give its name so I can research, cheers.

 

[weepiper]

The mother being invisible is an automatic consequence of the article being solely based on medical research papers, the human aspect doesnt tend to feature in such things. edited to add - because of their narrow focus and the need to anonymise patient-specific info.

As for being contra-indicted in breastfeeding women, if you are talking about Domperidone, it is unlicensed for such purposes but has been used by women in general who are trying to increase milk production.

eg:

http://www.colchesterhospital.nhs.uk/patient_information/maternity/763n4 Domperidone.pdf



If you were referring to a different drug, please give its name so I can research, cheers.

Contra-indicated in the US, pardon me, merely 'unlicensed' in the UK. Even when it is prescribed in the UK it's for a maximum of two weeks; this baby ingested it for six months.
FDA Talk Paper: FDA Warns Against Women Using Unapproved Drug, Domperidone, to Increase Milk Production

 

[elbows]

Contra-indicated in the US, pardon me, merely 'unlicensed' in the UK. Even when it is prescribed in the UK it's for a maximum of two weeks; this baby ingested it for six months.
FDA Talk Paper: FDA Warns Against Women Using Unapproved Drug, Domperidone, to Increase Milk Production

Again, I'm just trying to establish how much of an unknown experiment this was. I continue to find your descriptions of the situation as it has applied to women for years to be incorrect. There is no 2 week maximum in the uk. The article I already linked to contains evidence of this, which does also demonstrate that they try to reduce the dose, but there is no 2 week limit:

1. Reducing the medication
   
   Once an increase in milk supply has been established, the medication may be reduced, this should be in stages to assess the impact on milk production, and the following is a guide:
   
   • medication should be reduced in stages of 10mg, ie one tablet at a time
     
     
   • a period of five days should be left between each reduction to allow assessment of the effect on milk production
     
     
   • if milk supply is unaffected, continue to reduce the dose as above
     
     
   • should the milk supply be affected, return to previous dose for a minimum of two weeks
     
     
   • reducing the dose can then be attempted again after this time
     
     
   • following this staged reduction should ensure that women receive the lowest effective dose
     
     
   • women should continue with the level of medication which supports their milk supply.
     

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Again, I'm just trying to establish how much of an unknown experiment this was. I continue to find your descriptions of the situation as it has applied to women for years to be incorrect. There is no 2 week maximum in the uk. The article I already linked to contains evidence of this, which does also demonstrate that they try to reduce the dose, but there is no 2 week limit:

Thanks, I was just going to say the same. There hasn't been a mention of risks to the baby other than in cases where the baby may have a heart condition. There must be numerous instances of babies "being made to injest" medication breastfeeding mothers are taking where judgements are made based on likely risks, such a finger pointing attitude kind of has implications for all of us if we are going down that road.

 

[Pickman's model]

Thanks, I was just going to say the same. There hasn't been a mention of risks to the baby other than in cases where the baby may have a heart condition. There must be numerous instances of babies "being made to injest" medication breastfeeding mothers are taking where judgements are made based on likely risks, such a finger pointing attitude kind of has implications for all of us if we are going down that road.

ingest: there is nothing humorous about it

 

[weepiper]

Thanks, I was just going to say the same. There hasn't been a mention of risks to the baby other than in cases where the baby may have a heart condition. There must be numerous instances of babies "being made to injest" medication breastfeeding mothers are taking where judgements are made based on likely risks, such a finger pointing attitude kind of has implications for all of us if we are going down that road.

I am well aware of the finger pointing attitude you talk about, having breastfed three babies for various lengths of time you can't take so much as a Lemsip because of the risk of transferring to the baby through the milk. When breastfeeding mothers have to take drugs for their own medical needs sometimes decisions are taken based on risks to the baby versus risks to the mother going untreated, and sometimes those risks end in the mother having to stop breastfeeding. There is no risk in this case. It's pure selfishness.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I am well aware of the finger pointing attitude you talk about, having breastfed three babies for various lengths of time you can't take so much as a Lemsip because of the risk of transferring to the baby through the milk. When breastfeeding mothers have to take drugs for their own medical needs sometimes decisions are taken based on risks to the baby versus risks to the mother going untreated, and sometimes those risks end in the mother having to stop breastfeeding. There is no risk in this case. It's pure selfishness.

*does the I have breastfed I am a mum too dance* ahem, now that's over with, you don't think the benefits of skin to skin contact, being breastfed, bonding with the babies mother (who is trans whether you like it or not) outweigh the risks here- as has been stated there is no 2 week limit in the UK and "natal women" use the drug too. There is no risk in any case as you say but you only seem to have an issue with a trans woman doing it. Or should no one be using it?

 

[Jonti]

There's no need to be rude, nor for the quotes round natal women.

 

[weepiper]

*does the I have breastfed I am a mum too dance* ahem, now that's over with, you don't think the benefits of skin to skin contact, being breastfed, bonding with the babies mother (who is trans whether you like it or not) outweigh the risks here- as has been stated there is no 2 week limit in the UK and "natal women" use the drug too-level where is no risk as you say but you only seem to have an issue with a trans woman doing it. Or should no one be using it?

Well whoopy do for you, have a cookie. The baby's mother that gave birth to it can do all that without pumping herself full of hormones and nausea suppressors, and she's the only one in the relationship that can make colostrum, which is the most important breast milk with huge benefits for the baby, because colostrum is produced in pregnancy. Why is it better for the father (it is the baby's father we're talking about in this instance) to go through all those hoops to produce milk which isn't as good as the mother's? How about she gets to bond with her own baby?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Well whoopy do for you, have a cookie. The baby's mother that gave birth to it can do all that without pumping herself full of hormones and nausea suppressors, and she's the only one in the relationship that can make colostrum, which is the most important breast milk with huge benefits for the baby, because colostrum is produced in pregnancy. Why is it better for the father (it is the baby's father we're talking about in this instance) to go through all those hoops to produce milk which isn't as good as the mother's? How about she gets to bond with her own baby?

Isn't that between them, and none of you business?

 

[elbows]

I was a bit concerned that my info about Domperidone in the UK might be out of date due to a European review of the heart issues in 2014.

However, the NHS stance does not seem to have changed much, and the breastfeeding network's info sheet on Domperidone contains info about the European review and updated UK advice.

http://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org...tatement on domperidone as a galactogogue.pdf