Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I haven’t said you have no material struggles. But the fact you place you place your identity struggle above any class struggle proves the point I was making.
Thing is others have genuinely tried to explain they are socialists not Idpol dudes, but you chop and change between socialism and idpol whenever it suits. Maybe you struggle with these concepts as I do. So admit it, it is alright ;)
 
Thing is others have genuinely tried to explain they are socialists not Idpol dudes, but you chop and change between socialism and idpol whenever it suits. Maybe you struggle with these concepts as I do. So admit it, it is alright ;)
I'm a socialist. How am I putting my struggle above the class struggle? I know how capitalism enforces heteronormativity and cissexism but in order to do anything but constantly defend myself the left need to recognise us as who we are and not constantly attack us or undermine us.
 
I'm a socialist. How am I putting my struggle above the class struggle? I know how capitalism enforces heteronormativity and cissexism but in order to do anything but constantly defend myself the left need to recognise us as who we are and not constantly attack us or undermine us.
I don't believe you are!

This is my thinking:

Socialist feminists simply haven't thought about transgender folks yet. There is little theory that helps here, as it needs someone prominent to apply Marxism to your particular situation.
Most people don't understand the trans phenomenon to start with.
Identity politics takes a front seat here easily as we are dealing with people who experience gender as clashing with their biological sex. Identity. Identify. This leads the unfamiliar to conclude you guys just subscribe to idpol and are running with it like buggery.
Socialists need to understand that transgender people are not just arsing about, and that people indeed exist that face material conditions that are not quite as inextricably linked to biology as we previously thought. And that they can only survive on cookie cutter summing up for so long! This Is NEW TERRITORY.
As I said before, we need new maps.


ETA: I believe you are a socialist!
 
By the way I put that up for smarter people to rubbish, particularly Vintage Paw as she is good at explaining things! Tell me what I do not get, I am willing to learn!
 
I'm a socialist. How am I putting my struggle above the class struggle? I know how capitalism enforces heteronormativity and cissexism but in order to do anything but constantly defend myself the left need to recognise us as who we are and not constantly attack us or undermine us.

Is ’cissexism’ the same thing as transphobia?
 
By the way I put that up for smarter people to rubbish, particularly Vintage Paw as she is good at explaining things! Tell me what I do not get, I am willing to learn!
I think Marxist analysis already exists for trans people. Or at least is in the process of being worked out by trans people. It's a pity most of us don't get much further than constantly having to defend ourselves. And of course the priority for us is to achieve equality so we have people in a position where we have influence, where people begin to take notice of our opinions. And if we can't do that through the left - well, I'm in the green party because I found labour an uncomfortable place. But I joined labour in 1983 at age 16 and I always thought I'd be there. Maybe I can go back one day.
 
Is ’cissexism’ the same thing as transphobia?
No. Not entirely. Transphobia is a bit of an outdated term tbh. I'm trying to remember not use it. Cissexism is more precise.

And then there's transmisia which just means hatred of trans people. I would use it more but I don't think many people know what it means.
 
I think Marxist analysis already exists for trans people. Or at least is in the process of being worked out by trans people. It's a pity most of us don't get much further than constantly having to defend ourselves. And of course the priority for us is to achieve equality so we have people in a position where we have influence, where people begin to take notice of our opinions. And if we can't do that through the left - well, I'm in the green party because I found labour an uncomfortable place. But I joined labour in 1983 at age 16 and I always thought I'd be there. Maybe I can go back one day.
Brilliant, hopefully we can exchange this information as you guys work it out, where I said "prominent people " I should have said other cis femimists. This obviously has to come from you guys. I think despite the doom and gloom this is interesting times and i don't think it all leads in one direction , the conversation will branch off in many different ways. Ultimately there will be progress for LGBT in general. But nothing is perfect :)
 
Brilliant, hopefully we can exchange this information as you guys work it out, where I said "prominent people " I should have said other cis femimists. This obviously has to come from you guys. I think despite the doom and gloom this is interesting times and i don't think it all leads in one direction , the conversation will branch off in many different ways. Ultimately there will be progress for LGBT in general. But nothing is perfect :)
I know certain people on here won't believe me, but I'm involved day to day with cis feminists, supported by cis feminists, and join in with discussions with cis feminists. Unfortunately most of it at the moment is about how to defend trans people and parents of trans children, which is a great shame.
 
I know certain people on here won't believe me, but I'm involved day to day with cis feminists, supported by cis feminists, and join in with discussions with cis feminists. Unfortunately most of it at the moment is about how to defend trans people and parents of trans children, which is a great shame.
I do not doubt you, I keep wording my posts clumsily-wine! I have seen the vitriol hurled at trans parents who are just listening to their kids and supporting them. Kids can be especially adamant about their gender. My Son for ages thought pink cups were toxic waste but now he Educates others: There is no such thing as girls stuff :)
 
But he knows he is a boy. I can imagine how adamant he would be if he knew he was a girl. People seem to think we programme kids, it doesn't work like that, they have a personality all of their own and the only way you could possibly interfere with that is by bullying them.
Which is how most of my generation grew up. No wonder were mostly pretty screwed up. I tried once to tell my mum about who I really was, when I was 6, and I got so scared, mostly by my dad, that I never tried it again. Just bottled it up.
 
Which is how most of my generation grew up. No wonder were mostly pretty screwed up. I tried once to tell my mum about who I really was, when I was 6, and I got so scared, mostly by my dad, that I never tried it again. Just bottled it up.

Which is fine and nobody here is saying isn’t.
 
Which is how most of my generation grew up. No wonder were mostly pretty screwed up. I tried once to tell my mum about who I really was, when I was 6, and I got so scared, mostly by my dad, that I never tried it again. Just bottled it up.
Not remotely comparable but I first remember experiencing severe depression when I was 8. We didn't have words for it then, things would probably be a bit different now.
But that's the thing, people also don't realise we have long memories and realise we have little control over who we are. Some one said that in another trans thread "I feel I did not have a choice in this at all."
 
Not remotely comparable but I first remember experiencing severe depression when I was 8. We didn't have words for it then, things would probably be a bit different now.
But that's the thing, people also don't realise we have long memories and realise we have little control over who we are. Some one said that in another trans thread "I feel I did not have a choice in this at all."
Yeah. I spent most of my childhood and 30 years of adulthood trying to pretend it wasn't happening, or finding ways to manage it, or actively trying to purge it out of me. I didn't tell anyone again until I was 27 and that was online to someone in the US (a cis woman, supportive and still a friend today). I was all set to come out properly at 33 but my wife made it clear that she wouldn't tolerate it, so I went back in the closet for another 12 years.
 
Yeah. I spent most of my childhood and 30 years of adulthood trying to pretend it wasn't happening, or finding ways to manage it, or actively trying to purge it out of me. I didn't tell anyone again until I was 27 and that was online to someone in the US (a cis woman, supportive and still a friend today). I was all set to come out properly at 33 but my wife made it clear that she wouldn't tolerate it, so I went back in the closet for another 12 years.
I read your post a few days back about how much better you were feeling now and I think you are so brave to climb that mountain and how much it must have been worth it! It's made me think I need to be more open about my sexuality as I hear bi folks have high rates of suicide and that, my silence makes it harder for others. I shy away from telling people though so I have so much respect for you, and keep fighting! :)
 
I read your post a few days back about how much better you were feeling now and I think you are so brave to climb that mountain and how much it must have been worth it! It's made me think I need to be more open about my sexuality as I hear bi folks have high rates of suicide and that, my silence makes it harder for others. I shy away from telling people though so I have so much respect for you, and keep fighting! :)
That's something else that happened. Because I couldn't see who I was objectively all those years, though I was clearly bisexual as a child, I dismissed it as a phase. I was brought up in very homophobic times and a very homophobic community. My parents drummed it into me quite heavily what they would think if I turned out gay. So I suppressed it. Not very effectively. I had a series of relationships with women, partly to try to shake off being gay, and whatever that weird thing was that kept making me think I was, or wanted to be a woman. I mean it cropped up in dreams even if I could stop myself from thinking about it, my dreams would scream it at me, YOU'RE A BLOODY WOMAN, GET USED TO IT!!

and though I knew about bisexuality I just never even entertained the idea, not for a second.

So once my gender was sorted my sexuality sorted itself out pretty quickly. I still fancy girls but I hate penetrative sex so going out with straight women wasn't an option for me any more. But, I started getting hit on by men. Cis women I met would talk to me about men, and sex and that, so I think it changed my thinking. I don't think I have any homophobia in me anymore. I have strong compassion and empathy for gay men, but I know I'm not one now. But have been with a straight cis man for three years now and I think we're together for life now. Best relationship I've ever had.

Oh by the way - I'm a stonewall bi role model :D

I fully intend to get involved in the bisexual community asap. There's bi fest every august which I keep missing. Maybe this year
 
Last edited:
That's something else that happened. Because I couldn't see who I was objectively all those years, though I was clearly bisexual as a child, I dismissed it as a phase. I was brought up in very homophobic times and a very homophobic community. My parents drummed it into me quite heavily what they would think if I turned out gay. So I suppressed it. Not very effectively. I had a series of relationships with women, partly to try to shake off being gay, and whatever that weird thing was that kept making me think I was, or wanted to be a woman. I mean it cropped up in dreams even if I could stop myself from thinking about it, my dreams would scream it at me, YOU'RE A BLOODY WOMAN, GET USED TO IT!!

and though I knew about bisexuality I just never even entertained the idea, not for a second.

So once my gender was sorted my sexuality sorted itself out pretty quickly. I still fancy girls but I hate penetrative sex so going out with straight women wasn't an option for me any more. But, I started getting hit on by men. Cis women I met would talk to me about men, and sex and that, so I think it changed my thinking. I don't think I have any homophobia in me anymore. I have strong compassion and empathy for gay men, but I know I'm not one now. But have been with a straight cis man for three years now and I think we're together for life now. Best relationship one ever had.
Thats amazing, it's good to see someone working it out. I had some other physical issues and stuff I won't go into, I also now know my capacity for denial as i worked through my issues with my dad (believed that old lie, abused become abusers, took me til now to realise I could never be capable of that but it ruined the early precious years of being a mum as i went nuts thinking he wasn't safe wth me). I am aware that I have a tendency to go along with stuff sometimes as I crave to not be the piece of shit my dad told me I was, need to be told otherwise. Have always had an issue in that I am mostly romantically attracted to people, sexual stuff is just awkward and difficult! But i now know to be angry at people who failed me and to know never to fail my son in that way. i feel I am at the start of something. Since I got ill every year has been new. Here is to another!
 
Thats amazing, it's good to see someone working it out. I had some other physical issues and stuff I won't go into, I also now know my capacity for denial as i worked through my issues with my dad (believed that old lie, abused become abusers, took me til now to realise I could never be capable of that but it ruined the early precious years of being a mum as i went nuts thinking he wasn't safe wth me). I am aware that I have a tendency to go along with stuff sometimes as I crave to not be the piece of shit my dad told me I was, need to be told otherwise. Have always had an issue in that I am mostly romantically attracted to people, sexual stuff is just awkward and difficult! But i now know to be angry at people who failed me and to know never to fail my son in that way. i feel I am at the start of something. Since I got ill every year has been new. Here is to another!
Good to meet you, and thanks for being an ally :)

We have a lot in common I think. And yeah, to another year. The last couple have been shit so I'm hoping this one is better :D:thumbs:
 
Good to meet you, and thanks for being an ally :)

We have a lot in common I think. And yeah, to another year. The last couple have been shit so I'm hoping this one is better :D:thumbs:
You are very welcome and my PM inbox is always open if this board gets a bit much! Yes, here is to a happy 2018!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom