Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
Yes, of course. Even in Ireland
The cultural resistance to birth control there is tiny. Gone are these days:
Great photo!
Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?
- Thread starter The Flying Pig
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Great photo!
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
This isn't a thread about race so I don't want to go off on a derail about it; we've only got here because of a comparison between race and gender made upthread. But yes, you could get there and have a long drawn out conversation about what to call mindsets we can probably agree we disapprove of.Defined by whom?I think at the very least that this would be disputed as a definition - I reckon a lot of people would define racism simply as prejudice based on race. Otherwise you can quickly get to what Pickman's said - for instance, Nation of Islam is not racist despite believing that white people are devils because of the power relations involved.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's racial prejudice if the prejudice is based on race, though. What else could it be?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Fair enough. I'll leave it now.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
The logic behind the TERF desire to throw trans women off all women shortlists is truly otherworldly stuff. They seem to think that men, who have an advantage in seeking election simply from being men, will reject that advantage and instead publicly and falsely declare themselves to be women, in order to get on an AWS. And then will face first internal candidate selection and then the electorate as a pretend woman. The TERFs don’t put forward any reason why ambitious men would reduce their chances of success by doing any of this.
Still though, they have at least won over Jolyon Maugham QC, who is now one of their biggest donors. So someone finds this crazed nonsense convincing.
Still though, they have at least won over Jolyon Maugham QC, who is now one of their biggest donors. So someone finds this crazed nonsense convincing.
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
So you say. What I've been reading is worries about pushing transitioning onto parents and things like that.
Not before trans activists intimidated another venue. By the time Pink News found out about the Quaker hall one it was too late to disrupt it.
Here's what a friend of mine had to say about it on Faceache after someone else accused my friend of promoting transphobic drivel:
"There's been loads of 'calling out' on this issue (see above) but precious little debate. This meeting was a valuable contribution to that debate, informed, open, rational, not a hint of transphobia. It was great to see women activist friends of mine I'd not seen for a while with different views on this issue saying how much they valued being able to discuss it without the toxicity. Congratulations to the organisers, this across the country please."
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
Hence the use of 'I believe'. And who are you calling a 'TERF'?
It's also an anonymised tweet from an unidentifiable social network, posted by an anonymous tweeter. If it is genuine whoever said it is a dick, but that's just one dick out of 7 billion people, not really representative of anything.
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
Most people who use this phrase have not the first idea what it means or the context it arose. Raymond's book is really good.
Shiela Jeffries spoke at one of the earlier meetings, her views are quite clear. If an organisation that claimed to simply be critical of Israeli human rights abuses had a history of booking holocaust deniers would you trust their motives?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
The Bahar Mustapha defence, iirc.
Raymond wants to use social and medical stuctures to morally mandate transsexuality out of existence in the here and now, not post gender. She wants to discourage transition using social and medical structures. Jeffries, who dedicated her anti-trans book to Raymond, goes further and has called trans health care a human rights abuse which should be banned. Raymond was also the first I think to posit that trans women 'rape' (her words) women's bodies by "by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves .... Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women, so that they seem non-invasive."
But you know all this of course.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
A photo from the abortion pill train in 2014, inspired by the 70s contraceptive train. Women illegally importing abortion pills, openly, daring the cops to interfere.
All of the groups involved are trans inclusive and all supported the self ID law.
It is difficult.
But there's been a few attempts on this thread to think about how gender is formed and how a sense of one's gender may come about. Pickman's link to ep Thompson talking about class opens it up a bit I think, takes us beyond a 'there is an essential thing called gender identity vs there is no such thing' argument.
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
Didn't you hear of the meeting that successfully went ahead despite all attempts to prevent it? What use do you think hyperbole is at the stage where people stop being fearful of accusations of transphobia and go and look for themselves?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The other way of looking at this, of course, and one that many would agree with - that the new gender id law marks the latest in a number of successes in Ireland over the last couple of decades as it wrenches itself from the grip of the Catholic Church, the next success hopefully being the legalisation of abortion. The opposite, really, of being the result of a culture that ignores women's rights: part of the same movement that will also achieve greater women's rights.
A photo from the abortion pill train in 2014, inspired by the 70s contraceptive train. Women illegally importing abortion pills, openly, daring the cops to interfere.
All of the groups involved are trans inclusive and all supported the self ID law.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Exactly. The feminist, lgbt and left wing movements that have spent the last 30 plus years successfully fighting to get rid of repressive Catholic laws universally regard trans rights as part of that struggle and the introduction of self ID laws as one of their successes.
TERFery is a British disease, a product of the decomposition of 80s radfem scenes and the tireless work done by the New Statesman to make transphobia respectable outside of its social conservative heartlands. There’s no other country where allegedly “progressive” transphobia has any kind of significant presence.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Generous of you to advertise this group.
Didn't you hear of the meeting that successfully went ahead despite all attempts to prevent it? What use do you think hyperbole is at the stage where people stop being fearful of accusations of transphobia and go and look for themselves?
I would hope that people might employ the same scepticism that they might if a meeting was organised aimed at preventing proposed new rights for any other minority. Such as is there a broader agenda, are concerns about this issue being used to generate wider concerns or hatred towards a group of people?
I would support for example a feminist group that challenged religious based oppression of women. If however they booked Tommy Robinson to speak I might think that in reality their aims went beyond those publicly promoted and be sceptical.
What use do you think hyperbole is at the stage where people stop being fearful of accusations of transphobia and go and look for themselves?
This is all starting to sound a bit blue pill/red pill by the way, not you specifically, just these sudden claims of ordinary women seeing the light and scales falling from people's eyes.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Might be a bot
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Just one bad apple, eh?
Or you could look at it as something that affects a tiny number of people being prioritised over something that affects many, many people.
And not having access to abortion or being denied one when it's required for medical reasons is a very significant risk to mental and physical wellbeing. I imagine much more of a risk than not being able to self ID.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
How was it prioritised?
You do know that changing abortion laws requires a referendum, yes, and that there have been groups working towards getting one for years (and working towards a situation where the referendum will actually be won)?
Again, I don't understand the idea here that this is either/or.
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
Except the demonisation of anyone with an inkling of doubt lends me the right to doubt all claims. As I said the other day when Jeffries name came up, questioning/analysing medical practice within the socio/politico/economic conditions is something that should be actively pursued.
Rebecca Reilly Cooper is another one that's been tarred as a transphobic TERF and yet I have to see any writings or lectures (she has a few on youtube) where she speaks of trans people as people to be exterminated.
Am I allowed to be skeptical? (rhetorical question)
How long have abortion rights been an issue? How long has self ID been an issue? Which one has happened and which one hasn't happened?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Lawmakers.
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