Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[Magnus McGinty]

Do you fight this hard for postcode bigotry, Nigel?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

He won’t; because it isn’t fashionable to actually do class politics.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Do you fight this hard for postcode bigotry, Nigel?

Not everywhere is Britain, Magnus. We don’t use post codes.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Not everywhere is Britain, Magnus. We don’t use post codes.

The context was explained in my following post.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Of course he doesn’t. Because he’s a liberal not a socialist.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The context was explained in my following post.

The context is what? That nobody who opposes transphobia can be involved in class politics?

Probably 90% plus of the political stuff I’ve been involved in has been straightforward class politics stuff, around council housing, the bin charges, minimum wage, water tax etc. The bulk of the remnant has been supporting abortion rights. I’m always amused though when some clown decides that real socialists have to be socially backwards bigots.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The context is what? That nobody who opposes transphobia can be involved in class politics?

Probably 90% plus of the political stuff I’ve been involved in has been straightforward class politics stuff, around council housing, the bin charges, minimum wage, water tax etc. The bulk of the remnant has been supporting abortion rights. I’m always amused though when some clown decides that real socialists have to be socially backwards bigots.

It’s the way you patronise people that spells it all out for me. Keep away from class self organisation. You’re a managerial wanker.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It’s the way you patronise people that spells it all out for me. Keep away from class self organisation. You’re a managerial wanker.

I treat bigoted scum as bigoted scum. If they don’t like me, that’s a good thing.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I treat bigoted scum as bigoted scum. If they don’t like me, that’s a good thing.

Which is why you’re a fully paid up member of irrelevancy.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Which is why you’re a fully paid up member of irrelevancy.

Why don’t you tell us all about how pandering to bigots has made you relevant?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Why don’t you tell us all about how pandering to bigots has made you relevant?

I’m pandering to nobody. I’m interested in hearing what everyone has to say.

 

[Sea Star]

I’m pandering to nobody. I’m interested in hearing what everyone has to say.

Lie

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Oh come on, the Radge Fem women's bogs stuff is middle class AF.

 

[pengaleng]

||:d;dp;D

 

[pengaleng]

i hope you're feeling better soon you're unusually good-natured today and it's concerning me.

I know, i might get a rep out of it init

 

[krtek a houby]

You always make everything about trannies, ffs. You must be a hoot IRL.

I'm really confused. Is the word "trannies" suddenly acceptable now

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Lie

Have I spoken to you or others the way Nigel has been speaking to women on this thread? Do point out where if I have.

 

[MochaSoul]

You are perfectly entitled to question that as is anyone. But you can't be surprised that trans people might object to an organisation that promotes indivduals who want to take away trans rights and make trans healthcare illegal, healthcare that in many cases people say has saved their life and which has a large body ofevidence supporting it's effectiveness.



I'm not aware that Tommy Robinson has ever called for all Muslims to be exterminated. Is that the bar now, as long as you aren't calling for trans genocide then anything else goes.

I asked you before, where are you going with this? What would you like to see?

Oh FFS
Exterminating trans people is the gist of what you and the trans lobby accuses people of doing every time they question some of the medical practices involved especially those involving children (oh, yes, that also means denying them healthcare). You start with the hyperbole and when we point to it you ask about low bars. It doesn't work on me. Look ye here:




Complete with an, oh so very nice elision there allowing for all sorts of reactionary arguments against a woman's right to choose! Brilliant. We shouldn't worry our by now less pretty heads than those of trans women. It's a one off.
Denying their existence is what they call it when people use the wrong pronouns or refuse to accept the notion that subjective feelings have a prior claim to biology. As if that made it true.

In the meantime this:


... goes on. It's another one off, I hear you say, while transforming the fact of Jeffries having made a comment from the floor to a meeting (one of those that had to be kept secret until it started for fear of retaliations against those attending) which gave an opportunity for the audience to speak, into Jeffries having been invited as a speaker. Even the Quakers, the Quakers FFS, have come under fire now for allowing a meeting discussing all of this and more... and you don't want us to be suspicious. It's our defenses being potentially broken down. Not yours.

I'm getting the dialogue and rational discussion that I wanted in the first place and which has been stalinistically denied.

 

[MochaSoul]

Have I spoken to you or others the way Nigel has been speaking to women on this thread? Do point out where if I have.

"We're Nazis and therefore our views should not be heard." That's all they mean by pandering. It's meant as to signal a no go area. It does work but only temporarily. It has consequences, some of which serious, such as making words such as "racist" sounding more mere insults rather than statements of a fact of discrimination or prejudice. And it invites backlashes.

 

[MochaSoul]

Oh come on, the Radge Fem women's bogs stuff is middle class AF.

Said by someone who never had to run from a creep into a public toilet therefore not having the slightest idea of the horror inherent in contemplating the possibility of said creep being able to follow them in. Obviously, it could only happen to middle class women and those creeps were trans women.

 

[Sue]

One of the peculiarities of transphobes in this thread is that they are so used to lying that they keep forgetting that when they lie about other people’s posts in this thread other people can easily see that they are lying.

Ireland is of significance to this discussion not because anyone is claiming it is a uniquely progressive country. It isn’t, although it does have a much bigger feminist movement than Britain because struggles over women’s rights have been so prominent. It is of significance to this discussion because it has self ID laws of the sort that British TERFs are loudly scaremongering about, it has had them for years, and not one of the terrible consequences TERFs have been predicting has come to pass. Instead of attempting to deal with this unfortunate fact, the transphobes here simply ignore it and repeat over and over again that Ireland has repressive abortion laws. They are dishonest down to their marrow.

Nigel, are you really calling me a transphobe? I'd be very interested to hear your reasons why.

Nigel Irritable, no response to this? If you're going to call me a transphobe (and a liar) the least you can do is back it up.

 

[Red Cat]

I treat bigoted scum as bigoted scum. If they don’t like me, that’s a good thing.

I suppose it depends on whether you're more concerned about yourself or actually changing people's pov. Seeing how many times you can say bigot in a post doesn't do anything for the latter.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Said by someone who never had to run from a creep into a public toilet therefore not having the slightest idea of the horror inherent in contemplating the possibility of said creep being able to follow them in. Obviously, it could only happen to middle class women and those creeps were trans women.

Oh, are we actually going there? Ok. I am a female abuse victim as it happens, I have been touched up on a train once on my own too. My first thought wasn't "where is a public toilet" but if it were, I could use the boys cubicles, disabled toilet as well as the ladies for this purpose, any that has a lock on the door. I would love to know how self ID laws would drastically alter my options here?!? There is no law stopping a man cross dressing and using the ladies bogs now, or just walking into them period.



But yeah, I can see us working class people rallying around the issue of TRANS WOMEN USING LASSIES BOGS!!! Must try that one at the school gates to test the waters, one of the parents is trans, I can see everyone getting behind me on that one, poll tax style unifying power!


On another note, could people also not use those of us who are attracted to women as justification for this mad shit either, thaaaaanks. The concerns I had reading that were mainly that it reminded me of how we feel when homophobic women think we are just going to harrass them because we are gay/bi.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

But it goes to show that people on this thread don t really think someone is going to go through the process of ID'ing as a woman FOR LIFE just to get in the ladies toilets, it's a point being used to scare us. Pretending these are the concerns of actual abuse victims, or lesbians. Mocha's post there made no sense. There's a reason for that, as it is clearly primarily motivated by prejudice. I don't like to throw the word bigot around but it's becoming very difficult not to.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Nigel Irritable, no response to this? If you're going to call me a transphobe (and a liar) the least you can do is back it up.

Sue , as far as I can see, any woman on this thread who dares to ask a question is immediately branded a bigoted TERF by Nigel Irritable .

 

[MochaSoul]

Oh, are we actually going there? Ok. I am a female abuse victim as it happens, I have been touched up on a train once on my own too. My first thought wasn't "where is a public toilet" but if it were, I could use the boys cubicles, disabled toilet as well as the ladies for this purpose, any that has a lock on the door. I would love to know how self ID laws would drastically alter my options here?!? There is no law stopping a man cross dressing and using the ladies bogs now, or just walking into them period.



But yeah, I can see us working class people rallying around the issue of TRANS WOMEN USING LASSIES BOGS!!! Must try that one at the school gates to test the waters, one of the parents is trans, I can see everyone getting behind me on that one, poll tax style unifying power!


On another note, could people also not use those of us who are attracted to women as justification for this mad shit either, thaaaaanks. The concerns I had reading that were mainly that it reminded me of how we feel when homophobic women think we are just going to harrass them because we are gay/bi.

Oh well done.So you think that women like you who happened to be lucky to be able to run into a public toilet should simply somehow unremember those occasions and not be worried or able to ask questions because you weren't so lucky. <<< That was my point as has been my point throughout. I had already expressed a view on public toilets probably in this very thread about how simply redesigning them could make them fit for both men and women using them safely because I have seen it done. What I'm objecting to is the idea that people and especially women should be deemed transphobic just because a few articles in the press make them ask questions and challenge the trans orthodoxy.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Said by someone who never had to run from a creep into a public toilet therefore not having the slightest idea of the horror inherent in contemplating the possibility of said creep being able to follow them in. Obviously, it could only happen to middle class women and those creeps were trans women.

Has this happened to you?

 

[MochaSoul]

But it goes to show that people on this thread don t really think someone is going to go through the process of ID'ing as a woman FOR LIFE just to get in the ladies toilets, it's a point being used to scare us. Pretending these are the concerns of actual abuse victims, or lesbians. Mocha's post there made no sense. There's a reason for that, as it is clearly primarily motivated by prejudice. I don't like to throw the word bigot around but it's becoming very difficult not to.

Oh fuck off. My very allusion to certain creeps not being trans women should have given you an inkling to what I'm getting at.

 

[Pickman's model]

Said by someone who never had to run from a creep into a public toilet therefore not having the slightest idea of the horror inherent in contemplating the possibility of said creep being able to follow them in. Obviously, it could only happen to middle class women and those creeps were trans women.

there is nothing to stop someone going into public toilets intended for the opposite sex beyond societal disapproval and one's own ability to repel them, in the almost total absence of toilet attendants.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Oh well done.So you think that women like you who happened to be lucky to be able to run into a public toilet should simply somehow unremember those occasions and not be worried or able to ask questions because you weren't so lucky. <<< That was my point as has been my point throughout. I had already expressed a view on public toilets probably in this very thread about how simply redesigning them could make them fit for both men and women using them safely because I have seen it done. What I'm objecting to is the idea that people and especially women should be deemed transphobic just because a few articles in the press make them ask questions and challenge the trans orthodoxy.

I didn't run into a public toilet. "Well done" ...eh, thanks?

Oh fuck off. My very allusion to certain creeps not being trans women should have given you an inkling to what I'm getting at.

No I really don't know what you are getting at. Is redesigning public toilets a trans issue?