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Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

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Rutita1 said:
Has this happened to you?
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Yes, it has, in a club I decided to go to thinking my own group of friends were there and I came out of it with a group women having confided in them about the creep. And we all went and talked to security.
 
You responded to my post about radical feminists opposing self ID laws not generally being a top working class issue, if your post wasn't related to that, I cannot help being confused.
 
HoratioCuthbert said:
I didn't run into a public toilet. "Well done" ...eh, thanks?

No I really don't know what you are getting at. Is redesigning public toilets a trans issue?
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Stop with being disingenuous. Well done for thinking other women should shut up and take whatever's given just because you weren't able to escape.
Yes, in my view a simple redesign of public toilets, could make it easier for that particular problem to go away without having to police everyone's sex on entry.
 
MochaSoul said:
Stop with being disingenuous. Well done for thinking other women should shut up and take whatever's given just because you weren't able to escape.
Yes, in my view a simple redesign of public toilets, could make it easier for that particular problem to go away without having to police everyone's sex on entry.
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I have not suggested women shut up about anything, and since you aren't opposing self ID laws I don't have a problem with what you are suggesting. Why would I? I don't think toilet design fans are bigots, and have said nothing to suggest otherwise.
 
MochaSoul said:
What I'm objecting to is the idea that people and especially women should be deemed transphobic just because a few articles in the press make them ask questions and challenge the trans orthodoxy.
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What is it about "the trans orthodoxy" you wish to challenge? Are they opposed to better toilet design?
 
HoratioCuthbert said:
I have not suggested women shut up about anything
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No you do it obliquely, "Radge Fems worries about toilets are middle class tosh". Look at what you said and face the dismissal inherent in it.


HoratioCuthbert said:
and since you aren't opposing self ID laws
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I wouldn't be so sure. But it doesn't matter, it's clear you haven't read anything else I have said and because I'm not in love with repeating myself I'll leave you to it.
 
MochaSoul said:
No you do it obliquely, "Radge Fems worries about toilets are middle class tosh". Look at what you said and face the dismissal inherent in it.




I wouldn't be so sure. But it doesn't matter, it's clear you haven't read anything else I have said and because I'm not in love with repeating myself I'll leave you to it.
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Right so we aren't just talking better toilet design, I had read what else you were saying but you then told me you simply wanted better toilets, I can't keep up with your constant goal post moving. Yes let's leave it at that.


Dismissal faced and after a re-assessment, still stands. It is Radge Fems worries about Transwomen in their toilets, to be specfic, that I am dismissing.
 
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Seems weird to me that for some reason this always gets dragged back to toilets.

Toilets really are irrelevant at the moment because in the 250 pages we still haven't agreed on with definitions for:

a) trans
b) woman
c) man
d) gender

So it seems like everyone's gonna talk past each other.

There's no point about talking about "trans incusivity" until you can say what exactly it is one is supposed to be including.

You can talk about women only spaces but unless you are using the same definition of woman as the other party the conversation is pointless.

The history of the first loo in the UK is interesting btw. It was fought for so that women (the female kind) could take part in public life, so they could go to work without being harassed for not staying at home, bringing up the kids or confirming to your sex role.

It was eventually burnt down by a group of angry men.

I'd like to think that we've moved past those days, but I'm not so sure. The stereotypes still persist and the feminist movement on the grabs scheme of things is still quite young.

Anyway, point is if yer not willing to define your terms then how can anyone understand what you're trying to say.
 
And just to add, as far accusations of bigotry go, most women who are against self-id actually WERE fully on bored with it to start with because it seemed like the kind thing to do. Most of us are live and let live types. Myself included. All those who changed yer mind on issues say "I".

If you are informed by bigotry then hearing the other side, or thinking about your position critically and what the conclusion and facets of that position are, deciding the outcome is nonsensical or undesirable AND THEN changing your mind, is the very opposite of bigotry. Others can have different conclusions and that's fine, but it certainly is not BIGOTRY to disagree, as some would have us think.

For all these accusations of TERF and bigot being peppered about, there ain't much evidence for it.
 
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ElizabethofYork said:
Did you ask questions? I only remember you stating that the thread should be binned.
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the thread should be binned. It's an awful thread full of awful crap. But i have asked questions (that weren't answered) and i am a woman.

Anyway - whatever i say won't make a jot of difference. The last people the cis want to listen to about trans are trans people.

You go ahead and work yourself up into a frenzy of fear and contempt for trans people and i'll just carry on my life, and engage with those who support me.
 
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Sea Star said:
the thread should be binned. It's an awful thread full of awful crap. But i have asked questions (that weren't answered) and i am a woman.

Anyway - whatever i say won't make a jot of difference. The last people the cis want to listen to about trans are trans people.

You go ahead and work yourself up into a frenzy of fear and contempt for trans people and i'll just carry on my life, and engage with those who support me.
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Wait, what?

Where have I worked myself up into a frenzy of fear and contempt?

Are you drunk?
 
Sea Star said:
the thread should be binned. It's an awful thread full of awful crap. But i have asked questions (that weren't answered) and i am a woman.

Anyway - whatever i say won't make a jot of difference. The last people the cis want to listen to about trans are trans people.

You go ahead and work yourself up into a frenzy of fear and contempt for trans people and i'll just carry on my life, and engage with those who support me.
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‘The cis’
 
Sea Star said:
the thread should be binned. It's an awful thread full of awful crap. But i have asked questions (that weren't answered) and i am a woman.

Anyway - whatever i say won't make a jot of difference. The last people the cis want to listen to about trans are trans people.

You go ahead and work yourself up into a frenzy of fear and contempt for trans people and i'll just carry on my life, and engage with those who support me.
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I did listen to you/ask your thoughts yesterday but you didn't reply. Which is absolutely your right, but a bit much that you then say people don't want to listen to you. :confused:
 
Sue said:
And I'd imagine some women commit suicide over bring denied abortion rights or end up physically/mentally impaired as a result. And that's not counting those who die directly as a result of being refused a termination. I imagine accurate figures for this likely don't exist.

I also think this assertion is curious -- interested to know your thoughts on why you think this:

'Historically trans women have probably been more solidly in favour of right to abortion than cis women.'

I'm not setting up abortion and trans rights against each other (and I'm certainly not afraid of either!). The whole topic of Ireland came up because Nigel Irritable kept holding it up as a model of progressiveness.

It was then pointed out that it certainly isn't progressive as far as abortion rights are concerned. Which i reckon is pretty uncontentious, no?
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Sea Star
 
FabricLiveBaby! said:
For all these accusations of TERF and bigot being peppered about, there ain't much evidence for it.
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to be fair if you are seeking to exclude trans women from women's spaces on any grounds, and are a radical feminist, then you have done enough to earn the title Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist. No?
Vintage Paw said:
In the meantime, here's some stuff on what affects the lives of the evil trans orthodoxy agenda mafia: LGBT in Britain - Trans Report
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The physical attacks very grim indeed, and no doubt a danger trans women face when entering male-only spaces.
MadeInBedlam said:
‘The cis’
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It's just an easy way to say "not trans".
 
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