Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[RainbowTown]

can't speak for non binary folks but having caught flack from gay and straight people for being bi, I can only imagine what it's like for them trying to explain it to people. I have had lots of people(more so gay than straight to be honest) tell me sexuality isn't on a spectrum, I must choose. It's one of those things, if it doesn't apply to you you don't know what it is like.
But I have just given up been out of the closet in that regard, you get tired of explaning yourself.

I think that's a fair point. Some of my gay friends have a real bee in their bonnet about people who class themselves as bisexual (not me, I hasten to add). It's like you have to 'own' your homosexuality and not 'betray' it. All totally ridiculous in my view. People's sexuality can be fluid and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[trashpony]

Ireland, that pinnacle of transrights, doesn't allow transwomen into women's prisons. So I guess they don't believe that transwomen are actually women after all.

I have never had any flack at all for being bisexual. Then again, I don't bang on about it all the time. In fact, this is probably the first time I've mentioned it in 10 years on this board. Unless I'm in a long term relationship with someone, it's irrelevant

 

[JimW]

I'm a extremely one-dimensional person and I don't appreciate being erased in this way.

 

[8ball]

I'm a extremely one-dimensional person and I don't appreciate being erased in this way.

He is, I’ve seen him.

He’s just a line.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Ireland, that pinnacle of transrights, doesn't allow transwomen into women's prisons. So I guess they don't believe that transwomen are actually women after all.

I have never had any flack at all for being bisexual. Then again, I don't bang on about it all the time. In fact, this is probably the first time I've mentioned it in 10 years on this board. Unless I'm in a long term relationship with someone, it's irrelevant

I don't bang on it about at all as I said, this mainly happened to me during the period I was in a opposite sex relationship following a same sex one, about 15 years ago. It was worse than coming out the first time. I brought it up for context, but I think it's ok for people to bring it up as often as they like. Have I said something that offends you?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I'M BISEXUAL URBAN


WASTING YOUR BANDWIDTH WITH PATHETIC STORIES ABOUT MY SEXUALITY

 

[Vintage Paw]

It's gonna blow some people's minds when they find out that trans people can be gender critical.

 

[8ball]

I'M BISEXUAL URBAN


WASTING YOUR BANDWIDTH WITH PATHETIC STORIES ABOUT MY SEXUALITY

Captain Jack Harkness needs to lay off the caps lock a bit.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Captain Jack Harkness needs to lay off the caps lock a bit.

THE GAY AGENDA ON DR WHO

 

[trashpony]

I don't bang on it about at all as I said, this mainly happened to me during the period I was in a opposite sex relationship following a same sex one, about 15 years ago. It was worse than coming out the first time. I brought it up for context, but I think it's ok for people to bring it up as often as they like. Have I said something that offends you?

I don't know you, I know nothing about you. You haven't offended me at all - you just triggered a thought. What an odd thing to write.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm a extremely one-dimensional person and I don't appreciate being erased in this way.

You might appreciate meditation 1 in knowledge lecture 1 of the g.'.d.'.


First Knowledge Lecture - Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn

 

[Vintage Paw]

It's a bit of an odd thing to say, "I don't bang on about being bi and I don't get flak." I mean, good for you?

Biphobia, especially from gay people, is well documented. It's a freaking scourge of the LGBT community (such as there is one). It's pretty great if you've never experienced that, but to imply if someone just kept their sexuality to themselves they wouldn't bring on the biphobia themselves is shitty.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Fucking hell. Is that really necessary?

Most of us might get a bit self pitying or angry if a dozen strangers spent 200 plus pages debating our rights, if we are who we say we are, how we are treated. The transphobes here are revolting, empathy-free, shitheads who delight in cruelty to a deeply oppressed and marginalised minority. Which is why there should be no friendly debates with them, just encouragement to speed up their journeys out of the broad left.

 

[pengaleng]

If 51% of respondants were disabled, which is a curious statistic and one that very much depends on what measure of disability you use, then even so, why is that the 'real' story. Is widespread violence, discrimination and abuse a bit boring or something?

i was gonna question this but i am out of fucks

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

i was gonna question this but i am out of fucks

This, I am done. Pinot grigio, cheers!

Most of us might get a bit self pitying or angry if a dozen strangers spent 200 plus pages debating our rights, if we are who we say we are, how we are treated. The transphobes here are revolting, empathy-free, shitheads who delight in cruelty to a deeply oppressed and marginalised minority. Which is why there should be no friendly debates with them, just encouragement to speed up their journeys out of the broad left.

I would't agree with that entirely although I am less concerned with "The left" these days and more into thinking about community based stuff, though I am new to this kind of thinking. Transphobia within working class communities for example is always there but can be overcome to some degree- the Trans fella for example where I live is very well integrated in a community that the left here tend to write off, lefties vs idiots sort of mentality. It's the TERF "academics" with platforms that worry me the most, I find your more everyday transphobia is far easier to tackle sometimes with just simple exposure to actual transgender folks- I do not wish to make light of the violence they encounter though, more hoping to build on what I have seen working in the past. The more resistance we have to transphobia the better it will be for everyone so best to try and engage people as far as possible. At this point wine is kicking in so I am going to cease to make sense soon, if not already FIN!


ETA I mentioned working class communities because it's what I know, can't speak with authority on anything else really !

 

[elbows]

It's a bit of an odd thing to say, "I don't bang on about being bi and I don't get flak." I mean, good for you?

Biphobia, especially from gay people, is well documented. It's a freaking scourge of the LGBT community (such as there is one). It's pretty great if you've never experienced that, but to imply if someone just kept their sexuality to themselves they wouldn't bring on the biphobia themselves is shitty.

And occasionally on brief on display to the wider public via the media when the likes of Christopher Biggins make fools of themselves by spouting biphobic shite.

 

[friendofdorothy]

the thread should be binned. It's an awful thread full of awful crap. But i have asked questions (that weren't answered) and i am a woman.

Anyway - whatever i say won't make a jot of difference. The last people the cis want to listen to about trans are trans people.

You go ahead and work yourself up into a frenzy of fear and contempt for trans people and i'll just carry on my life, and engage with those who support me.

I do want to listen to trans people.

I keep reading this car crash of a thread in the vague hope I might learn something. There lots of things I've never really thought about or understood and I would like to know more, but I really don't think I'm going to learn much here.

From the chunks of this thread I've read, trans people's voices are being drowned out by a load of people with very little experience or knowledge and various amounts of fear and loathing.

 

[8ball]

It hasn't *all* been car crash tbf.

 

[Pickman's model]

It hasn't *all* been car crash tbf.

Yeh but the bits that have been have been the best bits

#urbanatitsfinest

 

[Red Cat]

It hasn't *all* been car crash tbf.

I don't think it's all been a car crash either. There seems to be a strong push to describe it as such though - if you rubbish it, of course you won't learn anything.

 

[crossthebreeze]

What does non binary mean ffs. Who is 'binary'?
(apart from Barbie, obvs).

It varies.
Some people id as non binary because they have body-based gender dysphoria such that they want treatment, but don't want to id as, the gender they would be medically be transitioning towards.
Some (but by no means all) intersex people id as non binary
Some people who id as non-binary wouldn't feel accepted/as if they pass as either a man or a woman, because they have a very androgenous appearance, or can pass as a man and woman in different circumstances (but not everyone who experiences this ids as non-binary).
And probably lots of non-binary people are just trying to navigate their place in the world the best they can.
And others would describe themselves as having a specific kind of gender identity.

Some non-binary people have always existed (even if they didn't use those specific words), and the concept that that is a way that you can id has only really happened in the last 25 years - beginning with radical queers in the 90s. I do think that part of the reason why some people id as non binary is because of a different way of looking at the world that's developed since then, and I've certainly come across people who pretty much say they must be non binary purely because they don't perfectly fit a gender stereotype, or who seem to have confused the concept of gender identity for personality, or politics or being a bit punk for identity (btw i'm partly talking about my younger self here). I also think there are some issues where non-binary people's needs and women's needs clash (especially where people try to be accommodating so they look inclusive but do it on the cheap and without much thought).

Whatever my concerns though, its clear that if half of the people in that survey are non-binary (and not all of the non-binary people id as trans), that non binary people experience a lot of shit - whether its specifically because of their non-binary identity or trans status, or because of their appearance or way of being (which would be the same regardless of identity), or whether the shit happened earlier in their life and contributed to them iding as non-binary. So its not something that can just be dismissed.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It's a bit of an odd thing to say, "I don't bang on about being bi and I don't get flak." I mean, good for you?

Biphobia, especially from gay people, is well documented. It's a freaking scourge of the LGBT community (such as there is one). It's pretty great if you've never experienced that, but to imply if someone just kept their sexuality to themselves they wouldn't bring on the biphobia themselves is shitty.

Years ago I got a finger wagging on here from someone (bi I think, ironically enough) for referring to a ‘gay community’. And yet here it’s being referred to, and I didn’t invent it myself.
And that’s one of the major hurdles for lowly ciswhitehetmales such as myself. We say one thing out of politeness only to be told it’s impolite and then it switches again some time later.
Something similar is happening in trans ideology here - in that we we’re supposed to agree wholeheartedly or be forever branded yet the view can change in a matter of weeks.
What are we supposed to be agreeing with?

 

[friendofdorothy]

I don't think it's all been a car crash either. There seems to be a strong push to describe it as such though - if you rubbish it, of course you won't learn anything.

what I have mostly learned on this thread is that there are some new ways of insulting people.

 

[Pickman's model]

Years ago I got a finger wagging on here from someone (bi I think, ironically enough) for referring to a ‘gay community’. And yet here it’s being referred to, and I didn’t invent it myself.
And that’s one of the major hurdles for lowly ciswhitehetmales such as myself. We say one thing out of politeness only to be told it’s impolite and then it switches again some time later.
Something similar is happening in trans ideology here - in that we we’re supposed to agree wholeheartedly or be forever branded yet the view can change in a matter of weeks.
What are we supposed to be agreeing with?

What are we supposed to be agreeing with? Don't even go there, mm, you don't want to open that can of worms

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I do want to listen to trans people.

I keep reading this car crash of a thread in the vague hope I might learn something. There lots of things I've never really thought about or understood and I would like to know more, but I really don't think I'm going to learn much here.

From the chunks of this thread I've read, trans people's voices are being drowned out by a load of people with very little experience or knowledge and various amounts of fear and loathing.

All of the women expressing their views have a lifetime of experience as women. I assume you don’t mean them?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

What are we supposed to be agreeing with? Don't even go there, mm, you don't want to open that can of worms

I’m just pointing out that even if you do go along with something you end up being wrong at a later point in time.

 

[friendofdorothy]

All of the women expressing their views have a lifetime of experience as women. I assume you don’t mean them?

I have a lifetimes experience as a women too - and an adult lifetime as a feminist - but it doesn't mean I know much about trans issues. What little I know I learned from transwomen and transmen I have met and listened to.

Mr McGinty please don't assume anything.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I have a lifetimes experience as a women too - and an adult lifetime as a feminist - but it doesn't mean I know much about trans issues. What little I know I learned from transwomen and transmen I have met and listened to.

Mr McGinty please don't assume anything.

There was no assumption. The women expressing their views aren’t pretending to be experts on trans issues, they’re discussing how the GRA might impact on themselves.
They should be listened to, no?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

There was no assumption. The women expressing their views aren’t pretending to be experts on trans issues, they’re discussing how the GRA might impact on themselves.
They should be listened to, no?

Fairly sure we all listened to each other and explained at length why we didn't agree. Is that ok?
For someone critical of idpol you aren't half going for the whole shut up and listen thing like buggery. Shut up and listen to Magnus's preferred women! Lol.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Fairly sure we all listened to each other and explained at length why we didn't agree. Is that ok?
For someone critical of idpol you aren't half going for the whole shut up and listen thing like buggery. Shut up and listen to Magnus's preferred women! Lol.

Well that was a bit of a misreading there. I was objecting to the suggestion that only trans have ‘experience’ of being trans so should be prioritised; despite the GRA affecting others.
I have no preference between trans and ‘cis’ tbh, but I’m fuming that the book fair has now ended over this shit. Those twitter cunts aren’t even communists.