Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[Magnus McGinty]

That's what I said.

At least we ended up agreeing!

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Really? I must either know a lot of unusual people or this is crass stereotyping.

This is crass stereotyping. I can imagine many trans people would object to this too.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Had this conversation with my Mum at Christmas. I said I flinch whenever she says ‘coloured’ but she says since she is ‘coloured’ and from an age when that was considered the most polite term, she’s going to carry on using it.

It’s fallen out of fashion because it’s seen as a racial epithet yet people of colour, which is basically saying the same thing, is in vogue and fine.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Why are you asking me? I didn't coin the term

In a way it does...but in other ways it doesn't....it centres people who are not White, it acknowledges the tendency for Whiteness to be a non-colour/invisibleand tries to flip it... it is akin to using the term 'black' or 'brown' and mostly used when talking about shared experiences, not to flatten and lump together, merely focus on what is commonplace. It's not a be all/end all description. Just like White isn't.

I don't recoil at the use of 'colour', I suspect I am more used to thinking about myself in those terms (ethnicity/phenotype/colour) though. I don't think many White people in Europe have had that experience tbh and you are certainly not the first White person I have experienced recoiling in that way.

I know black people who aren't keen on it either, tbf, having spent years getting people to just say 'black'.

My recoiling is due to the same thing as 8ball: that it feels very close to 'coloured'.

 

[8ball]

It’s fallen out of fashion because it’s seen as a racial epithet yet people of colour, which is basically saying the same thing, is in vogue and fine.

Yep, it’s confusing.

That Dennis Potter quote seems incredibly relevant to this thread: “The trouble with words is you never know whose mouths they have been in”.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yep, it’s confusing.

That Dennis Potter quote seems incredibly relevant to this thread: “The trouble with words is you never know whose mouths they have been in”.

The bottom line is this new wave of identitarians use the language (and politics) of the right but it’s just re-worded to sound progressive.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I know black people who aren't keen on it either, tbf, having spent years getting people to just say 'black'.

'getting people to just say Black'? Who had to get them to do that? Or do you mean there wasn't a consensus? Some didn't want to?

It's up to people to choose. Ethnically speaking, I can and do refer to myself as British, Mixed, Black, Caribbean and English, a POC, Brown...it all depends on the conversation/reason and I just seem to know which one is appropriate for whichever moment. It's not performative. Nothing changes about me.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

'getting people to just say Black'? Who had to get them to do that? Or do you mean there wasn't a consensus?

I mean awkward moments where (white) people are not sure what to say.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I mean awkward moments where (white) people are not sure what to say.

Ah okay.

 

[8ball]

Ethnically speaking, I can and do refer to myself as British, Mixed, Black, Caribbean and English, a POC, Brown...it all depends on the conversation/reason and I just seem to know which one is appropriate for whichever moment. It's not performative. Nothing changes about me.

If something is performative, doesn’t that actually mean that nothing essentially changes about you by definition?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

'getting people to just say Black'? Who had to get them to do that? Or do you mean there wasn't a consensus? Some didn't want to?

It's up to people to choose. Ethnically speaking, I can and do refer to myself as British, Mixed, Black, Caribbean and English, a POC, Brown...it all depends on the conversation/reason and I just seem to know which one is appropriate for whichever moment. It's not performative. Nothing changes about me.

Unfortunately it becomes how others address you also.

 

[8ball]

Unfortunately it becomes how others address you also.

If they’re all true is that a problem?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yep, it’s confusing.

That Dennis Potter quote seems incredibly relevant to this thread: “The trouble with words is you never know whose mouths they have been in”.

That's a great quote.

 

[Treacle Toes]

If something is performative, doesn’t that actually mean that nothing essentially changes about you by definition?

Eh? Have I misused the term?

What I meant is that it isn't a performance/show/acting/trying to fit in or be right on.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

If they’re all true is that a problem?

Is identity politics a problem? I think it is yes.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Is identity politics a problem? I think it is yes.

hmmm. I rarely refer to myself as anything, but then I'm white living in a white-majority country.

 

[8ball]

Eh? Have I misused the term?

What I meant is that it isn't a performance/show/acting/trying to fit in or be right on.

I think ‘performative’ as it pertains to gender (going with the background of this thread) makes it something deeper than a ‘faking it’ thing, but tries to explain it as ‘things you do’ rather than ‘things you are’ iyswim.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Is identity politics a problem? I think it is yes.

That's not an answer to 8ball 's question at all. Beat that drum any harder and maybe, just maybe no-one, not even you, will ever think/talk about the politics of your own identity and how they play out in your interactions, self depictions and practice of being you.

 

[8ball]

Is identity politics a problem? I think it is yes.

That’s not really identity politics, it’s just saying that we are all describable by a multitude of terms.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

That's not an answer to 8ball 's question at all. Beat that drum any harder and maybe, just maybe no-one, not even you, will ever think/talk about the politics of your own identity and how they play out in your interactions, self depictions and practice of being you.

Or maybe I’m not guilty of anything by being white just as you’re not guilty of anything by being black and the way forward isn’t to set up that dichotomy?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Or maybe I’m not guilty of anything by being white just as you’re not guilty of anything by being black and the way forward isn’t to set up that dichotomy?

Eh? What are you talking about? I haven't set one up in this discussion...You just imagine that. It's boring.

 

[8ball]

Is this cross-thread beef?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Is this cross-thread beef?

No idea...I am just bored of it.

 

[xenon]

Really? I must either know a lot of unusual people or this is crass stereotyping.

Yeah, that is rather overdone. Look how often people on here don’t know someone’s gender or assume and get it wrong. IRL voice isn’t a certain either. Majority of the time accurate enough, sure, but the conversational content is not the initial clue.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Either you favour identity driven politics or you don’t. Let’s not pretend to be ignorant of what it does.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Or maybe I’m not guilty of anything by being white just as you’re not guilty of anything by being black and the way forward isn’t to set up that dichotomy?

Think you've gone a bit haywire on this one, tbh. This isn't about id politics or setting up divisions.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Either you favour identity driven politics or you don’t. Let’s not pretend to be ignorant of what it does.

Have a herb tea and go to bed. Seriously.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Think you've gone a bit haywire on this one, tbh. This isn't about id politics or setting up divisions.

Perhaps so. But identity politics does that whichever way you look at it.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Have a herb tea and go to bed. Seriously.

We’ll settle with people of colour being a group then.

 

[Treacle Toes]

We’ll settle with people of colour being a group then.

What?

I'll settle with a snore and peace tea and stop reading your bizzare, drum beating, drivel tonight I think.