Toriers & Lib Dems, deal by Monday morning?

[Teaboy]

Looks like I got this all wrong. I really thought the lib dems would just go along with a confidence and supply arrangement, it turns out they wanted to play at being a goverment.

 

[where to]

Clegg's negotiating notes with the Tories: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/interactive/2010/may/11/election-2010-coalition-nick-clegg

most significantly, imo, it appears that Clegg may have been using an attack on the trade union financial support for Labour as a bargaining tool.

 

[where to]

The BBC's business editor Robert Peston says he has learned some of the likely elements of a joint Con-Lib economic and business policy. The £6bn of spending cuts promised this year by the Tories would go ahead, unless the economy were to dramatically weaken. The Tories would also adopt the Lib Dem plan to increase the tax-free allowance on income tax to £10,000. A meaningful initial rise in the allowance would come quickly, with a clear timetable announced to get to the full £10,000.

surprised by the second bit.

 

[glenquagmire]

surprised by the second bit.

Where's the money coming from?

 

[fractionMan]

A plague on all three of their house. arseholes the lot of them.

 

[trevhagl]

surprised by the second bit.

Labour must think it's Xmas.

1) Everyone gets to see what a bunch of vicious bastards the Tories are (assuming thats true about the cuts)

2) Their main rivals Lib Dems will look like arses for supporting cunts like that

and there may well be another election within a year....

 

[trevhagl]

Where's the money coming from?

well knowing the Tories, from the unemployed and disabled

 

[1%er]

What a fucking mess, the world is laughing at the UK.

British kids being killed to spread democracy around the world, what a great example

 

[butchersapron]

surprised by the second bit.

Ah yes, the tax-cut for the middle calss and high earners that the lib-dems were selling as part of their attempt to appeal to 'the left' - so radical the tories will happily sign up to it.

 

[where to]

Where's the money coming from?

exactly, it doesn't fit in with all previous indications of Tory spending (ie, cutting) plans [EDIT- notwithstanding the small matter of the £6bn cuts that is lol]. reports also suggest that the Tories will scrap their inheritence tax changes mind you. not sure what proportion that would cover.

 

[free spirit]

Oh right, we've principles but only now and then. You've spent days arguing the deal which now appears to be going through was utterly fantastical and impossible. You've backtracked and backtracked, even yesterday you were saying a deal that only had AV instead of PR was impossible. You been shown to have no actual grasp of the dynamics at play here and more than a little naive frankly. I think you should have a look at yourself and stop expending energy on the defence of a tory govt.

Why would the tories almost certainly get an absolute majority in a second election? I think the exact opposite is far more likely to happen and a proper anti-tory majority would emerge more strongly - even under PR. Of course, the real calculation that's been made here is that lib-dems have been exposed over the last week and would end up losing seats - that this would be an anti-tory majority dominated by labour. Welcome to the new politics.

that was all when there was at least the hope of doing a better deal with labour. It appears I knew the lib dems better than you, but you knew the labour party better than me, as I actually thought the labour party would do what it took to keep the tories out of power. Instead they chose your route of ensuring the lib dems had fuck all option other than to allow the tories into power even though that wasn't our preferred option.

you may also be right about the potentialy for an anti-tory majority in a new election focussed around labour, with the lib dems being squeezed out now that labour have demonstrated that they won't work with us. Seeing as how the labour party's just fucked us off though, you're having a fucking laugh if you expect the lib dems to go for that option either.

it's a shit state of a affairs, and I'm gutted that a deal couldn't be worked out between labour, the lib dems and others, but now that's apparently not a possibility, I'll not be happy about it, but won't blame the MP's for whatever they end up deciding.

I'll not forget that labour would prefer a tory government than to work with the lib dems though.

 

[magneze]

If the fixed term parliaments thing that the LibDems apparently want goes through then there will not be an early election! Dodgy.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

So has anyone started organising a riot sweepstake, assuming the tories get in?

You know the sort of thing, whoever gets closest to the date and location of the first major riot caused by tory policies wins (and ideally buys the beer afterwards)

 

[Wolfie Smith]

Interesting - one of the items is "Fixed Term Parliaments". The notion being that a minority government could govern for 4 fixed years without being taken down.

Even with fixed terms a minority government could be taken down by a vote of no confidence. What fixed term does is remove the ability of the PM to call an election at a moment of their own choosing to maxmise electoral gain.
Good idea.

 

[butchersapron]

I'll not forget that labour would prefer a tory government than to work with the lib dems though.

And no one will ever forget that you actively wanted and chose a tory govt over not having a tory govt (because those are real choices you still have) rather than risk a potential drop in lib-dem support.

 

[dennisr]

Ah yes, the tax-cut for the middle calss and high earners that the lib-dems were selling as part of their attempt to appeal to 'the left' - so radical the tories will happily sign up to it.

ain't it just

 

[where to]

Ah yes, the tax-cut for the middle calss and high earners that the lib-dems were selling as part of their attempt to appeal to 'the left' - so radical the tories will happily sign up to it.

it certainly had me duped. explain??

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

why the love for labour on here? they're never going to go back to being socialist...

 

[cesare]

why the love for labour on here? they're never going to go back to being socialist...

What love for Labour?

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

alright, not love. but how are the lib dems worse?

 

[butchersapron]

it certainly had me duped. explain??

Have a look at this short thread -and this article - i'm surprised this wasn't attacked at all over the last few weeks. Maybe the potential PR damage from the lib-dems easy response (attacking the poorest) was too off-putting.

 

[cesare]

alright, not love. but how are the lib dems worse?

Because they've put self interest before principles.

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

Because they've put self interest before principles.

not like labour at all.

 

[cesare]

not like labour at all.

Exactly.

 

[kabbes]

Well you certainly can't imagine a Labour-Conservative coalition, can you?

Please say no.

 

[free spirit]

And no one will ever forget that you actively wanted and chose a tory govt over not having a tory govt (because those are real choices you still have) rather than risk a potential drop in lib-dem support.

you've still not explained this one. How could this possibly work?

the only realistic none tory option was a coalition with labour, which labour have walked away from.

ah... I see, you're talking about the option for the lib dems to commit electoral suicide in order to give the labour party a free run at the tories in a new election. The very same labour party that's just told us to go fuck ourselves rather than work with us? Actually more than that, the same labour party who's taken us into an illegal war, introduced a whole raft of authoritarian anti-civil liberties legislation, done fuck all about climate change, fucked up the economy etc etc. you want us to basically give this lot another crack at the tories while the lib dems effectively stand aside?

or do you have something else in mind?

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

Exactly.

but clegg said before the election that in the event of a hung parliament he would try and work with the largest party first. i don't understand why people think tory rampant is better than the tories tempered by the lib dems.

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

Well you certainly can't imagine a Labour-Conservative coalition, can you?

Please say no.

i'm not talking about what's happening now, i mean the general vile new labour lot.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

but clegg said before the election that in the event of a hung parliament he would try and work with the largest party first. i don't understand why people think tory rampant is better than the tories tempered by the lib dems.

A minority Tory government couldn't be rampant. A Tory party with Lib Dem fall guys is in a much stronger position.

Louis MacNeice

 

[killer b]

but clegg said before the election that in the event of a hung parliament he would try and work with the largest party first. i don't understand why people think tory rampant is better than the tories tempered by the lib dems.

if you keep repeating it, it might become true.