Today was the start of the Great Miners’ Strike of 1984/85.

[dennisr]

but there is also a fetish/myth of 'behaving yourself' of 'non violence' in the 'decent working man' that we are forced/supposed to comply with too .. that it is ok to be beaten but we must not react (qoute any TU /Lab politician at the time cept NUM )

wasn't really an issue for the miners themselves - or anyone else who is left without a choice. its just a stick for hypocrites to beat people with.

(I sould have added - ...metaphorically, while the coppers did it in practice. - to the end)

 

[Das Uberdog]

you can delete posts - oh - i'll try that when I work out how.

as for dog i'd kick his teeth through the back of his head if i ever met the prick

You'd be too busy picking your teeth out the gutter, toughman.

 

[Das Uberdog]

I'd also like to point out that the reason for dennisr's machismo machinations is this post;

Is it even possible to have an undemocratic strike?

If a scab believes so violently that they should be in work then they can get in one way or another. As if it's harder for poor scabs to get into work past violent pickets than it is for pickets to stand outside the place and get twatted by police.

If they don't care enough to get beat, or to organise in the union against the strike, or commit to any other form of action, then as far as I can see the strike's perfectly legit.

Which was not an attack nor even response to anything he was originally saying.

HYAH I'M A PRICK

Dickhead

 

[Wolveryeti]

not worth the effort so deleted

Is this your life motto? It should be.

 

[dennisr]

Is this your life motto? It should be.

The miners strike was one of those points where you have to take sides.

For many of the people involved it still touches a raw nerve 25 years later. I can understand that from the point of view of folk who watched hungry people faced with mounting debt, no heating, their kids even refused school dinners, families torn apart, coppers marching through their villages waving overtime cheques at them when not beating them with impunity, all the old security destroyed except basic human solidarity holding you together.

I can even understand that from the point of view of the ruling class - Thatcher, the cabinet, the coal board coldly planning their battles to defend their class.

But some wanker like Foxy above - some cunt who read a theory out of a book and swallowed it whole who's idea of human emotion is a wind-up on a bulletin board with the advantage of anonimity. A lame defense of people who would treat him as the same sort of pawn and cast him aside when used up. Worse a defense of the very people who have not only destroyed those mining communities but have 25 years later proven themselves capable of destroying an entire societies security, futures, lives - as tens of thousands face job losses and loss of the roof over their families heads at the whims of abstract money markets. What a sad, sad level of 'involvement' in humanity that must be.

I suppose the anonomity is easy - not having to face real people - just like that of the smug pontifications of liberal journalists excusing themselves with their pretend 'neutrality'

The defeat of the miner's - of one of the key sections of the organised working class and therefore defense of wider conditions - opened up the chasm that has resulted in the chaos we see today were people don't have real jobs, make real things with real value - were illusions in making a quick buck by 'owning' a bit of property or 'owning' shares or geting stupid levels of 'credit' rather than though our own graft has become the norm. Following on from the lead of those at the top because there was little else on offer (despite the fact we are still working hard like the good little wage slaves we are in practice). And where the rug, finally, gets pulled leaving no real safety net for millions - billions worldwide. And some shameless cunt feels the need to defend the indefensible as a replacement for real feeling and emotion.

Wasn't just the miners who lost that battle. Even sad sacks like Foxy lost something important. (in his case a soul... judging by the weasel words)

You know Foxy - if you were really one of the big fish you defend you would not be wasting your time winding the rest of us up - whatever illusions you may have in yourself, you are just a puppet, a wannabe.

arsehole

 

[Swan]

What was the fuss about?... All these goverment haters needing a big friendly government to keep them employed even if the industry they were in was losing millions? Mining, steel and any other British 'industry' were on their last legs when Thatcher came to power.

The buy out of Tower colliery by the workers, using their redundancy, makes a lie of the claim that the mine could not be run at a profit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_7200000/newsid_7200400/7200432.stm

 

[butchersapron]

BBC4 now, The Miners's Strike

Documentary which captures the extraordinary passions unleashed by the 1984 miners' strike and examines how it changed Britain forever. Mining villages were consumed by violence and hatred as pickets fought running battles with police and striking and working miners were locked in confrontation.

With powerful interviews, evocative archive and dramatic reconstructions, the film follows the lives of five young miners from one village through a torrid but exciting year.

 

[Zeppo]

Thanks Butchers just saw the programme - fantastic and quite emotional - showed the class war in all its ugly forms. Must seem like another country for youngsters but it was a signifcant historical moment that changed and shaped lives. Yeah we lost but we were fighting for communities, jobs and a better tomorrow.

 

[butchersapron]

Thanks Butchers just saw the programme - fantastic and quite emotional - showed the class war in all its ugly forms. Must seem like another country for youngsters but it was a signifcant historical moment that changed and shaped lives. Yeah we lost but we were fighting for communities, jobs and a better tomorrow.

I said those exact words to gf, it must look like the past, like WW2

 

[treelover]

Obviously, I can't be sure, but unlike in the 80s' when many young people would have watched such a programme such as this excellent documentary(which was much more balanced than other BBC output) and made their judgements, nowadays its likely it was watched by few of the youth and influenced even less.

 

[butchersapron]

It was a well made balanced program i think.

 

[dennisr]

The Socialist Party have put their book about the strike, "A Civil War Without Guns" online:

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/books/miners_strike/msframe.htm

Here's Dave Douglass' review of the book, which describes it as "probably the best book, so far written on the events of 1984/85."

http://www.minersadvice.co.uk/reviews_ civil_war.htm

Its available online here:

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/books/miners_strike/msframe.htm

 

[mutley]

Former striking miners speak out.

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=17309

 

[Nylock]

What was the fuss about?... All these goverment haters needing a big friendly government to keep them employed even if the industry they were in was losing millions? Mining, steel and any other British 'industry' were on their last legs when Thatcher came to power.

The 3 day week and all that malarky All Maggie did was close those antiquated practices and drag this country kicking and screaming into the modern age. So people lost jobs? Shit happens. We used to have over 500,000 blacksmiths in this country...but guess what? We don't travel on horses anymore. Are you upset about their demise? Thought not. So work it out...Would you shut the internet down to keep libraries open?

The miners were holding every working man and his family to ransom every year demanding above-inflation wage rises, which of course was ramping inflation and alternative fuel prices up, and leaving old people unable to keep themselves warm. Thatcher was forced to choose the lesser of the 2 evils by importing coal at 1/5th of the price from Australia. They got what they deserved the f*cking smug, blackmailing greedy c*nts

Thatcher was a visionary. Closed down 100's of polluting coal mines in the 80's despite protests and violent demonstrations. Now the descendents of those 'liberals' that protested against pit closures are now protesting against coal. 'Coal not Dole' the badges said back then. I just saw a sticker on a lampost that said 'Say no to Coal'. F*cking idiots. One day all will understand that Thatcher was the greatest leader this nation, if not Europe, has ever seen.

Read this far and got compelled to reply: Amongst that massive pile of wrong is your factoid about Blacksmiths. Blacksmiths make tools and gates and fabricate all sorts of stuff from iron mainly and way back in the day they were also the village dentist and surgeon -however, shoeing horses is mostly a FARRIER'S job you tit.

Thatcher was not a 'visionary' she was at best a 'reform at all costs and fuck the consequences' politician and at worst a spiteful, vengeful, manipulative, vindictive martinet with a 'fit in or fuck off' viewpoint. Little wonder she is lauded by privileged snot-noses and loathed by the majority of everyone else. Chief among the many reasons that her and her grasping shower of shit managed to hold onto power for so long is that the opposition failed to give any form of 'credible' alternative. Frankly labour going for a policy of unilateral disarmament at the height of 80's nuclear war paranoia was an own goal of epic proportion that took them another 12 years and eventual torification to overcome.

 

[DRINK?]

Read this far and got compelled to reply: Amongst that massive pile of wrong is your factoid about Blacksmiths. Blacksmiths make tools and gates and fabricate all sorts of stuff from iron mainly and way back in the day they were also the village dentist and surgeon -however, shoeing horses is mostly a FARRIER'S job you tit.

Thatcher was not a 'visionary' she was at best a 'reform at all costs and fuck the consequences' politician and at worst a spiteful, vengeful, manipulative, vindictive martinet with a 'fit in or fuck off' viewpoint. Little wonder she is lauded by privileged snot-noses and loathed by the majority of everyone else. Chief among the many reasons that her and her grasping shower of shit managed to hold onto power for so long is that the opposition failed to give any form of 'credible' alternative. Frankly labour going for a policy of unilateral disarmament at the height of 80's nuclear war paranoia was an own goal of epic proportion that took them another 12 years and eventual torification to overcome.

My only regret is that Thatcher didn't go far enough, and publicly hang the union leaders, and parade Scargill's head on a spike around Westminster

 

[e19896]

My only regret is that Thatcher didn't go far enough, and publicly hang the union leaders, and parade Scargill's head on a spike around Westminster

"After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab."

"A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles."

"When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out."

"No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself." A scab has not.

"Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commision in the british army." The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class." Author --- Jack London (1876-1916)

 

[STFC]

Scabs heal wounds.

I thought the programme was good, very interesting. Someof teh strikers are clearly still bitter after all these years. None of them seemed to have anything but admiration for Scargill.

 

[Nylock]

My only regret is that Thatcher didn't go far enough, and publicly hang the union leaders, and parade Scargill's head on a spike around Westminster

My only regret is that the stroke didn't go far enough and finish the evil old bag off, but nvm won't be long now anyway eh?

 

[audiotech]

 

[frogwoman]

My only regret is that Thatcher didn't go far enough, and publicly hang the union leaders, and parade Scargill's head on a spike around Westminster

ooooooooOOOOOOOOOoooooooo

 

[cesare]

ooooooooOOOOOOOOOoooooooo

 

[nino_savatte]

Scabs heal wounds.

I thought the programme was good, very interesting. Someof teh strikers are clearly still bitter after all these years. None of them seemed to have anything but admiration for Scargill.

<shrugs> What's the point?

 

[dylanredefined]

Chief among the many reasons that her and her grasping shower of shit managed to hold onto power for so long is that the opposition failed to give any form of 'credible' alternative. Frankly labour going for a policy of unilateral disarmament at the height of 80's nuclear war paranoia was an own goal of epic proportion that took them another 12 years and eventual torification to overcome.

[/QUOTE]

And now when we could actually bin them they want to buy new ones Dont think Miners should have been able to bring the government down but surely this could have been handled better.

 

[belboid]

This is the classic image (nicked from another poster on another thread):

Orgreave, 18 June 84, Lesley Boulton from the Sheffield miner's support group shouts for an ambulance for an injured miner. A mounted policeman swears at her and hits out with his truncheon and she can only raise her hand for protection (Pic: John Harris)

interview with Lesley in the new edition of her local community mag - http://www.burngreavemessenger.org/archives/june-2009-issue/memories-of-1984/ Use of the photo cost sixty bleeding quid!

 

[e19896]

interview with Lesley in the new edition of her local community mag - http://www.burngreavemessenger.org/archives/june-2009-issue/memories-of-1984/ Use of the photo cost sixty bleeding quid!

I was going to say stick with your no 2 id stall, did note how you moved from on your own to the hub of those with you, our time will come, ha 60 pounds at long last BNDC has been usefull, shame you are not with your reformist polatics no2id what a strange bunch of bed fellows dear belboid, least we forget and we shall allways rember those scabs, becuase our time shall come, where we are proven right..

 

[belboid]

what the fuck are you on about you mad fuck?

(I noticed how you were ignored and skulked off, as per, still, facts were never your strong suit were they?)

 

[trevhagl]

My only regret is that Thatcher didn't go far enough, and publicly hang the union leaders, and parade Scargill's head on a spike around Westminster

Fuck off Tory boy

 

[audiotech]

My only regret is that Thatcher didn't go far enough, and publicly hang the union leaders, and parade Scargill's head on a spike around Westminster

It's not a crime fighting to save pits and defend communities - smartarse.

It is however an offence to lay waste to whole communities - dipstick.

 

[e19896]

what the fuck are you on about you mad fuck?

(I noticed how you were ignored and skulked off, as per, still, facts were never your strong suit were they?)

Like fuck, our time will come as if we are going to give you that plesure, no we did not fuck off, got some good photos as it happens see http://www.flickr.com/photos/0742/sets/72157619018432021/ ignored and skulked off, na that was you, on one side then made shure you had your mates round you do they know your a bully? note the person i was saying hello to is in said images.. nither was facts yours, any more lies? oh yes one those involved in no2id knows some former and current members of The Sheffield Far Right (no bullshit), now i wonder what they talk about: Strange who you are involved with is it not?

 

[belboid]

<giggles>