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The Virgin Mary

ouirdeaux said:
For years the Roman Catholics -- and indeed other branches of Christianity -- put people to death for disagreeing on the finer points of theology. Kill them all, let God sort them out. After all, that's why Thomas Aquinas thought heretics should be put to death: if they persuaded others of their error, they endangered their immortal souls. Heretics were worse than murderers.

And our would-be defender of the faith, bcuster, denied that Thomas Aquinas had said this. These grunting, gurning parodies of sentient humans don't even know the horseshit they pretend to believe.
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We've covered every bit of this in this very thread. Are you just here to make speeches?
 
andysays said:
Catholic teaching is, in fact, the latter, that it doesn’t actually matter at all who you worship so long as you’re a decent sort.

This thread continues to demonstrate that many of those angrily condemning Catholicism are profoundly ignorant of its actual teachings.
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‘Decent sort’ being the operative term of course. Should we go through the number of acts, lifestyle choices or sexual preferences the Catholic Church continues to deem unacceptable sins likely to send the perpetrator to Hell? Because whereas it would certainly be refreshing for Catholic God to give a Heaven pass to subscribers of other faiths, last I checked homosexuals were still likely to be told to fuck off by St Peter when they get to The Pearly Gates. Even if they are card carrying, baptised, communed, confirmed, active worshippers.

And what of atheists? Are we Heaven-bound if we’re a good sort too? That’s certainly news to me.
 
bcuster said:
We've covered every bit of this in this very thread. Are you just here to make speeches?
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You're just here to post links you haven't even read.

Those diplomas you're waving about -- was one of them in Applied Dishonesty from the University of East Buttfuck? Where you went on a football scholarship?
 
T & P said:
last I checked homosexuals were still likely to be told to fuck off by St Peter when they get to The Pearly Gates.
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It's a bit of a game, like all traditional Catholic theology. Being homosexual is just an expression of sinful nature, not a bar in itself. It's the sexual acts that are a sin. So wanting to have gay sex is like wanting to kill someone -- yes, it's not a good thing, but alas, humankind is prone to wanting all sorts of bad things. As long as you don't act on these terrible thoughts, you're doing the right thing.

But what if you slip up, and come into contact with the wrong person's genitals? That's where the rules of the game apply. Everyone sins, so that's why there's confession. You confess your sins to a priest who has the power to release you from them, if you do a few magic rituals and have a firm purpose of amendment. People used to refer to this as getting one's pan scraped. If you walk out of confession and get hit by a bus, you've died in a state of grace. But if you lapse (and, of course, everyone lapses), and die of a heart attack in bed during the Wrong Sort of Sex without having time to repent, you go straight to hell. Sorry, but rules are rules.
 
ouirdeaux said:
You're just here to post links you haven't even read.

Those diplomas you're waving about -- was one of them in Applied Dishonesty from the University of East Buttfuck? Where you went on a football scholarship?
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Lol. You're really out there, aren't you?
 
ouirdeaux said:
It's a bit of a game, like all traditional Catholic theology. Being homosexual is just an expression of sinful nature, not a bar in itself. It's the sexual acts that are a sin. So wanting to have gay sex is like wanting to kill someone -- yes, it's not a good thing, but alas, humankind is prone to wanting all sorts of bad things. As long as you don't act on these terrible thoughts, you're doing the right thing.

But what if you slip up, and come into contact with the wrong person's genitals? That's where the rules of the game apply. Everyone sins, so that's why there's confession. You confess your sins to a priest who has the power to release you from them, if you do a few magic rituals and have a firm purpose of amendment. People used to refer to this as getting one's pan scraped. If you walk out of confession and get hit by a bus, you've died in a state of grace. But if you lapse (and, of course, everyone lapses), and die of a heart attack in bed during the Wrong Sort of Sex without having time to repent, you go straight to hell. Sorry, but rules are rules.
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You've almost got it correct. Nice work. You're learning here, as am i.. God makes the Rules, God is the rules. Don't limit Him. never underestimate God's capacity for love and mercy. That's why we pray the hail mary to ask for Mary's intervention at the hour of our death
 
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bcuster said:
You've almost got it correct. Nice work. You're learning here, as am i.. God makes the Rules, God is the rules. Don't limit Him. never underestimate God's capacity for love and mercy. That's why we pray the hail mary to ask for Mary's intervention at the hour of our death
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Why does Mary need to intervene? Would we go to hell if she didn't ask God to save us? Even if we're decent people?
 
bcuster said:
You've almost got it correct. Nice work. You're learning here, as am i.. God makes the Rules, God is the rules. Don't limit Him. never underestimate God's capacity for love and mercy. That's why we pray the hail mary to ask for Mary's intervention at the hour of our death
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How can God make the rules, when man created God? Who do these rules apply to?

As regards love and mercy - is your God bipolar, or a cruel gaslighter?
 
Yes, the doctrine that those who have never heard the Word are not condemned seems to be common amongst all sects and churches claiming to be Christian. Only those who have heard the Word and rejected it are destined for Hell.

A person could happily live their life in ignorance of the Word, and they would not go to Hell. However, should a missionary come along and tell them of the Word, then that missionary has created the possibility that that person could go to Hell.

You are ignorant of the teachings of Jesus. A Jehovah’s Witness knocks on your door, and tells you about Him. You are not convinced. You have heard the Word, and rejected it, and you will go to Hell. Had that Witness of Jehovah not knocked on your door, then you would not have been condemned to eternal damnation in Hell.

People are going to Hell thanks to the actions of missionaries and proselytisers. It is wrong to jeopardise souls in the fashion. This is why missionaries and proselytisers are evil. They think that they are doing the work of God, but they are in effect acting for the Devil. To inform those ignorant of the Word of God of the Word of God is a sin.
 
bcuster said:
That is awesome!
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However, Mary is not one of us, she is not human, but a supernatural being. Therefore she cannot truly represent us. She is more comparable to a representative of a staff association. She is a lackey of the boss. After all, at the end of the day, a junior god is more likely to be on the side of a senior god.
 
ouirdeaux said:
It's a bit of a game, like all traditional Catholic theology. Being homosexual is just an expression of sinful nature, not a bar in itself. It's the sexual acts that are a sin. So wanting to have gay sex is like wanting to kill someone -- yes, it's not a good thing, but alas, humankind is prone to wanting all sorts of bad things. As long as you don't act on these terrible thoughts, you're doing the right thing.

But what if you slip up, and come into contact with the wrong person's genitals? That's where the rules of the game apply. Everyone sins, so that's why there's confession. You confess your sins to a priest who has the power to release you from them, if you do a few magic rituals and have a firm purpose of amendment. People used to refer to this as getting one's pan scraped. If you walk out of confession and get hit by a bus, you've died in a state of grace. But if you lapse (and, of course, everyone lapses), and die of a heart attack in bed during the Wrong Sort of Sex without having time to repent, you go straight to hell. Sorry, but rules are rules.
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Frankly, If I were Catholic God I would soon start to question the honesty of those who repeatedly committed the same sins Monday to Saturday then collected their free Get Out of Hell Card during their weekly confession. Feels like a bit of a loophole to me. But surely he would see through that dishonesty, if we mere mortals can.

It also looks a very flawed system. If you time it right, you could be an absolute evil monster and commit unspeakable acts throughout your entire life and cancel them out by regular confessions and a final honest act of repentance on your deathbed. Yet if you’ve been a good person all your life but had a crafty wank on a Thursday over your neighbour’s wife and then died of a heart attack the following day before you’d had a chance to confess to your Ten Commandment-busting shame, you could be well fucked.
 
ElizabethofYork said:
Why does Mary need to intervene? Would we go to hell if she didn't ask God to save us? Even if we're decent people?
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It's the saints and the angels that God has given authority too, that can help you out. And that there is good and evil in opposition. That's the way God made it. As you can probably tell my knowledge, and in terms of answering your question, is quite basic and will probably beg more questions.
 
T & P said:
Frankly, If I were Catholic God I would soon start to question the honesty of those who repeatedly committed the same sins Monday to Saturday then collected their free Get Out of Hell Card during their weekly confession. Feels like a bit of a loophole to me. But surely he would see through that dishonesty, if we mere mortals can.

It also looks a very flawed system. If you time it right, you could be an absolute evil monster and commit unspeakable acts throughout your entire life and cancel them out by regular confessions and a final honest act of repentance on your deathbed. Yet if you’ve been a good person all your life but had a crafty wank on a Thursday over your neighbour’s wife and then died of a heart attack the following day before you’d had a chance to confess to your Ten Commandment-busting shame, you could be well fucked.
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Again you underestimate the depth and breadth of God’s mercy. The only people who go eternal punishment are those who want to be there
 
bcuster said:
Again you underestimate the depth and breadth of God’s mercy. The only people who go eternal punishment are those who want to be there
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You’d better have a word with the committee running your religion, because sure as hell continue to peddle quite a more toxic and hateful narrative.

Thankfully millions of devoted Catholic followers (such as my own mother) as well as those from all other religions are nowadays enlightened enough to compromise between maintaining their faith and daring to question some of the doctrines still defended by the head of their church, even if laid down in their Holy Books.

Whereas I don’t believe in deities, if the religions of the world focused on preaching the positive aspects of their creed only and renounced all the millennia-old abominable rules that to this day continue to be used as an excuse to oppress millions of people, I would warmly welcome their continuing existence and even consider it as a beneficial trait to humanity. But for as long as the self-proclaimed spokesmen of God for their faiths fail to disown the numerous abominable rules, decrees and proclamations that plague their holy rulebooks, organised religion will continue to be one of the biggest poisons to humankind.

If the likes of my profoundly religious mother can manage to retain her faith whilst disagreeing with the Vatican’s position on such matters as divorce, contraceptives, gay sex, or abortion, everyone else can. I welcome you and every other religious person proclaiming the God you believe in is benevolent and merciful, but you most definitely need to sack those who run your religion and claim to speak your god’s will, because their policies regarding various aspects of life remain as disgustingly barbarian and damaging to society as they were centuries ago.
 
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T & P said:
You’d better have a word with the committee running your religion, because sure as hell continue to peddle quite a more toxic and hateful narrative.

Thankfully millions of devoted Catholic followers (such as my own mother) as well as those from all other religions are nowadays enlightened enough to compromise between maintaining their faith and daring to question some of the doctrines still defended by the head of their church, even if laid down in their Holy Books.

Whereas I don’t believe in deities, if the religions of the world focused on preaching the positive aspects of their creed only and renounced all the millennia-old abominable rules that to this day continue to be used as an excuse to oppress millions of people, I would warmly welcome their continuing existence and even consider it as a beneficial trait to humanity. But for as long as the self-proclaimed spokesmen of God for their faiths fail to disown the numerous abominable rules, decrees and proclamations that plague their holy rulebooks, organised religion will continue to be one of the biggest poisons to humankind.

If the likes of my profoundly religious mother can manage to retain her faith whilst disagreeing with the Vatican’s position on such matters as divorce, contraceptives, gay sex, or abortion, everyone else can. I welcome you and every other religious person proclaiming the God you believe in is benevolent and merciful, but you most definitely need to sack those who run your religion and claim to speak your god’s will, because their policies regarding various aspects of life remain as disgustingly barbarian and damaging to society as they were centuries ago.
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Remember that this person thinks people like your mom and most Irish people aren't real Catholics.
 
krtek a houby said:
Remember that this person thinks people like your mom and most Irish people aren't real Catholics.
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Oh really? I haven’t read the thread so I have missed. Curious about what makes one a real or fake Catholic.

Then again I have always found any inter-faith disputes particularly amusing. In true Life of Brian fashion, it often seems that the various splinter factions of Christianity see each other as far more heretical and hateful than even other faiths. I wish God would come down from Heaven and settle the argument.
 
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