The meaning of “conservative” in US media

[littlebabyjesus]

in the states this will amount to the same thing usually, except that the rightwinger will take advantage of soially liberal policies ( North Carolina GOP candidate Mark Robinson, a harsh abortion critic, says his wife once had the procedure in new ad) while trying to expel them from mainstream acceptance. trump, for example, is a thorough social liberal.

You mean in his private life? In his political life he certainly isn't. So he's a hypocrite on top of everything else.

I don't think I can buy that even in his private life, though. He's deeply misogynist, racist and not averse to a bit of casual homophobia.

 

[two sheds]

but quite 'liberal' if that's how you define it in who he sleeps with for example, and drug taking?

 

[petee]

You mean in his private life? In his political life he certainly isn't.

not now, no.

A timeline of Trump's many, many positions on abortion

Since 1999, Trump has been on just about every side of the abortion issue. Here's a timeline of his many positions.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[littlebabyjesus]

but quite 'liberal' if that's how you define it in who he sleeps with for example, and drug taking?

That's not how I define 'socially liberal'. For me being socially liberal is more about your attitude towards the way other people live than towards your own life. You could be teetotal and celibate and still be socially liberal.

 

[petee]

That's not how I define 'socially liberal'. For me being socially liberal is more about your attitude towards the way other people live than towards your own life.

okay good, then we're disagreeing, as i see socially liberal as one's attitudes towards one's own behavior. "i'll do anything my feelings tell me, becuase my feelings are beyond good and evil, and if anyone feels victimized that's their problem" would be the nut of it.

 

[two sheds]

isn't that the (Christian?) conservative view of a liberal though?

 

[Sue]

okay good, then we're disagreeing, as i see socially liberal as one's attitudes towards one's own behavior. "i'll do anything my feelings tell me, becuase my feelings are beyond good and evil, and if anyone feels victimized that's their problem" would be the nut of it.

I think littlebabyjesus' description is the standard one here. So:

socially liberal = non-racist/sexist/homophobic, kind of let people get on with it
socially conservative = pro-marriage (apart from gay marriage natch), anti-/gay/abortion/drugs etc, with old-fashioned views on the role of women.

Though it's possible to be right wing and socially liberal while being fiscally conservative (so pro-low taxes, anti-welfare etc).

ETA And of course you can also be socially conservative while being a big fat hypocrite.

 

[petee]

isn't that the (Christian?) conservative view of a liberal though?

pm coming

 

[teuchter]

This thread is only going to be any good if it attracts several Americans who disagree with each other on the definitions of these terms.

 

[cesare]

This thread is only going to be any good if it attracts several Americans who disagree with each other on the definitions of these terms.

Yuwipi Woman

 

[two sheds]

it's also good to have the views of people in the UK since we're also discussing the differences between US and UK usage.

 

[bluescreen]

Sue said:
Though it's possible to be right wing and socially liberal while being fiscally conservative (so pro-low taxes, anti-welfare etc).

Classic examples of the above are Johnson and Cameron

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I think the word "conservative" has had changing meanings over time in the US. It used to mean fiscally conservative, pro- the commons, such as roads and national parks, with an understanding of the fiscal problems caused by monopolies. Views about abortion could go either way as could views of environmental policy. In other words, they understood the need for responsible government policies, but drew the line further right than "liberals." With Reagan it began to change to include some really nasty anti-government ideas that just don't pan out in the real world. They've soaked up some ideas from the Chicago School of Economics and Ayn Rand in a mishmash of radicalism that for some reason has become labeled as "conservative." None of it is really conservative in the true meaning of the word.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think the word "conservative" has had changing meanings over time in the US. It used to mean fiscally conservative, pro- the commons, such as roads and national parks, with an understanding of the fiscal problems caused by monopolies. Views about abortion could go either way as could views of environmental policy. In other words, they understood the need for responsible government policies, but drew the line further right than "liberals." With Reagan it began to change to include some really nasty anti-government ideas that just don't pan out in the real world. They've soaked up some ideas from the Chicago School of Economics and Ayn Rand in a mishmash of radicalism that for some reason has become labeled as "conservative." None of it is really conservative in the true meaning of the word.

Yeah like here with Thatcher.

 

[krtek a houby]

Have come across Americans who equate liberalism with Marxism. Which fair makes my brain hurt.

And yes, they are Trump supporters.

Referring to my previous post, do think if someone has the knowledge and energy, a thread about the history of left wing politics in the US would be fascinating.