subversplat
writer of wrongs
My plan of importing expensive consumer tat to flog to rich people is in tatters 
Woe is me, etc.
Woe is me, etc.
"the UK is finished"
- Thread starter durruti02
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kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
My plan of importing expensive consumer tat to flog to rich people is in tatters
Import cheap consumer tat to sell to the rich at a huge markup.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Take away the defence work, or stop them exporting, and you're still talking about a company with a global rep for excellence and innovation that's well deserved. You're basically saying here that because of one aspect of it's business, that the rest is bollocks and shouldn't be a model for other UK engineering companies. Pretty short sighted really.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
That FT article seems to me just to continue the mistake that the governments been making though, which is to see the economy as being a discrete entity, and the 'figures' as changing according to some internal dynamic, i.e. what marxists would call reification. This is summed up in their description of the current situation as a 'financial crisis' when in fact it is an economic one - it is not just a problem of distribution but also a problem of production and also one of aggregated human emotion and that elusive thing 'confidence' in the UK/US economies in particular. So there's no reason why the figures would indicate what is about to happen before it does happen - it's like deciding that the twin towers are perfectly safe based on a structural analysis of the buildings on the morning of 9/11.
g force
Affects Shatner's Basoon
This is true and something we need to fix. One of the most intelligent comments I've seen on here was when someone said we don't have a knowledge economy, Germany has a knowledge economy. We need more precision engineering, biotech, software etc. Rolls Royce is a good example of a company that we need more of.
We can't compete with China when it comes to making mass-produced widgets so we need to add more value. Plus bit of rebalancing from Financial Services would be an excellent thing, perhaps some of those physics, maths and engineering graduates might consider careers outside the city now.
And that comes from someone who works in the City
What? we have a huge biotech/IT/development indsutry. Some of the the best green technology work is being driven out of the UK (alebit not always by UK companies) - tidal power, wind power etc.
IBM's labs are absolutely stunning. Then there's Microsoft's work conducted at Thames Valley Park, Oracle etc. It's out there and now is the time to back it more to push it to the next level.
Fuck nimbys who complain about turbines...if they don't liek them they can go without electricity
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Still doesn't negate my basic argument, which is that everyone on here is focussing purely on news that fits their pre-existing view that everything is completely fucked and we'll all be eating from buckets by the end of the week. It's also interesting to note that the same sentiment was all pervasive back in 1992 AND 1981-83, both on the right and the left.
Anyhoo, I'm taking a wait and see approach on this, and refusing to get too worried about it.
Anyhoo, I'm taking a wait and see approach on this, and refusing to get too worried about it.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Speak for yourself, I've been spending my time dressing up as a city type and flitting around the offices, cafes and brothels frequented by the business elite and spreading rumours about bad economic stuff on the horizon. Royal Bank of Scotland, that was one of mine
elbows
Well-Known Member
I only agree partially with you on that. Not everybody on here is focussed purely on such news. My view is that we are in a lot of trouble, but I disagree with the stuff linked to this week that claims we are already bankrupt.
And even if the worst case scenario unfolds, it will be a while before we are eating from buckets.
Having said that I refuse to be optimistic in an excessive way, there is not exactly a lot of good news to be touting as an alternative. There are a couple of silver linings to our declining currency and other woes, but I dont think it will be business as usual again. Its hard to overstate how much change there will be, but it wont happen overnight. I hope the silver linings do not turn into silver lemmings.
What? we have a huge biotech/IT/development indsutry. Some of the the best green technology work is being driven out of the UK (alebit not always by UK companies) - tidal power, wind power etc.
IBM's labs are absolutely stunning. Then there's Microsoft's work conducted at Thames Valley Park, Oracle etc. It's out there and now is the time to back it more to push it to the next level.
Fuck nimbys who complain about turbines...if they don't liek them they can go without electricity
I think we're kinda agreed there...we have some excellent stuff but lets make it better and more. I'd also like it if there was a British company to add to the IBMs, Oracles and Microsofts of this world.
Def agree about IBM, I worked for them for a bit and I hadn't realised how much really cool, far out research they do. They've got more nobel scientists than any other company in the world. I worked for the consulting bit though so I made lots of Powerpoint slides
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Just had a quick look at exchange rates. The pound is way down on the US dollar and euro, but it has remained pretty steady in the past year against the Swedish Kronor - 11.3 to the pound with a 12-month high of 12.9, so a drop of 12% from the high point. Is Sweden finished too?
That said, it's way down against everything else except the New Zealand dollar.
That said, it's way down against everything else except the New Zealand dollar.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Will Hutton on Mr Lamont's little problem with exchange rates
Oh look, it's amazingly like his last couple of pieces in the Observer...
At least he's recylcing I suppose, even if it is just hot air.
Oh look, it's amazingly like his last couple of pieces in the Observer...
At least he's recylcing I suppose, even if it is just hot air.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
We are at the mercy of speculators. Why do we let them get away with making themselves rich on our backs?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Next on Urban:
The return of the gnomes of Zurich
'Dr Mahatir was right about currency speculators'
Quite.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Well it's an obvious point, but one that's ignored in the mainstream media.
We've just had the banks failing when loaning money at interest must be the easiest way to make a living known to man. They're idiots. (I know you know this, but I'm in the mood for stating the obvious. Why do we let idiots run important things?)
Well people do like to find evidence that reinforces their prejudices.
Things ARE looking bad but it's not the end of the world, we don't need to buy guns and head for the hills and we're not entering a new Dark Age. Banks will re-emerge in a more regulated form and the rest of the economy will enter a recession from which it will emerge from eventually.
When that happens I would like to think people will consider whether getting themselves into huge amounts of debt just to buy a huge plasma tv is a good idea but I doubt they will.
g force
Affects Shatner's Basoon
I think we're kinda agreed there...we have some excellent stuff but lets make it better and more. I'd also like it if there was a British company to add to the IBMs, Oracles and Microsofts of this world.
Def agree about IBM, I worked for them for a bit and I hadn't realised how much really cool, far out research they do. They've got more nobel scientists than any other company in the world. I worked for the consulting bit though so I made lots of Powerpoint slides
Sadly as soon as they become a competitor or are seen to be doing something unique IBM or similar buys them up!!!
What is clear in all of this is that the idea being peddled in some circles of a quick recession and then back to the economy of a few years ago is farcical. Even if the recession doesn't bit as hard as sya the 1970s the recovery process will certainly be more gradual and the 'peak' lower.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
The trouble I have is that I honestly don't know whether a total and catastrophic collapse of neoliberal economics or a return to the status quo would be the worst case scenario
If it's really not as bad as all that and the powers that be do manage to claw us back to something approaching normailty, well that normality is still absurd and destructive and will simply find new and better ways to implode once a crisis of economic resources becomes a crisis of actual resources that cannot be replaced using only voodoo, propaganda and superstition.
I wuld like to ask the 'primitives' on here and the advocates of self-sufficiency, even the proseltysisers for mutual aid, how people with disabilities, the old, etc, will be able to set up 'allotments' become self-sufficient, provide for themselves, in the coming crisis. Its a question that never seems to be addressed.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
If you look at what has happened in Argentina, where the workers have taken over factories to keep them going, you'll see that in circumstances of crisis like this where the government has effectively abdicated responsibility for the wellbeing of its people, people organise help for those that need it themselves.
Because they're b-o-r-i-n-glittlebabyjesus said:
We'd be much better off swapping democracy for meritocracy and appointing engineers and scientists to run important things, because they actually know how they work.
Now we just have a collection of power-hungry parasites, unqualified politicians and blah-blah men who are the most unsuitable people for anything of any importance, let alone government.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
They'll all be given free food in return for peeling potatoes or whatever their abilities allow them to accomplish.
Of course, it does mean that everyone else will have to work, because it'll be 'from each according to need', and I'm cynical enough to think that lots of 'politcal' non-workers (i.e. won't work because of the whole wage slave thing) will get something of a rude awakening when asked to get out on the fields at 5am...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Do you know anyone like that?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
A good question, to which my answer is that the only way to achieve any kind of self-sufficiency is by seizing land on a massive scale. The same goes for housing, there needs to be a mass tendency towards withholding rents and occupying unused properties. The more people who do this, the less able the state will be to prevent it. I can't see any such movement appearing without help for those less able to support themselves being an unspoken cornerstone of the whole thing. It is only the selfishness required for survival in our society that has suppressed our natural instinct to help all those who need our help.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Used to know about 20 or so hardcore 'We're not going to work because of the Man, man' types who attempted to set up a co-op fruit and veg gardening thing, which failed because they could never decided on a rota to plant and tend, so while I don't know anyone like that currently, I'm pretty sure they're still out there.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Ok. I used to know people like that too. But at least they attempted to start their own work.
I also no longer know anyone like that. We're getting old.
Talkie Toaster
New Member
Yup, that sums it up nicely for me.
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