The end of cash?

[SpookyFrank]

Help me work this out....

if there is an island with a million pounds of cash circulating on it and no outside money comes in or out, that money would just go round and round in some fashion.

if there is no cash but the million pounds is held digitally and every time there is a transaction 1% is taken off and given to person outside the island (peter thiel) over time the amount of actual money on the island would reduce to zero. Is that right? I appreciate 1% is more than currently getting charged

I'm just wondering how much our real world cash economy is shrinking each year as percentages get creamed off, and how much that would be if a country really was cashless.

??

The amount of money in circulation would asymptotically approach, but never actually reach, zero.

 

[moochedit]

Help me work this out....

if there is an island with a million pounds of cash circulating on it and no outside money comes in or out, that money would just go round and round in some fashion.

if there is no cash but the million pounds is held digitally and every time there is a transaction 1% is taken off and given to person outside the island (peter thiel) over time the amount of actual money on the island would reduce to zero. Is that right? I appreciate 1% is more than currently getting charged

I'm just wondering how much our real world cash economy is shrinking each year as percentages get creamed off, and how much that would be if a country really was cashless.

??

That percentage goes to the bank but it doesn't "disapear".

 

[emanymton]

That percentage goes to the bank but it doesn't "disapear".

No more than the other changes they take for everything else a business account. Or any other charge or profit taken by any other company. As shit as the extraction of profit is, the money doesn't disappear into the either.

 

[rasputin]

Help me work this out....

if there is an island with a million pounds of cash circulating on it and no outside money comes in or out, that money would just go round and round in some fashion.

if there is no cash but the million pounds is held digitally and every time there is a transaction 1% is taken off and given to person outside the island (peter thiel) over time the amount of actual money on the island would reduce to zero. Is that right? I appreciate 1% is more than currently getting charged

I'm just wondering how much our real world cash economy is shrinking each year as percentages get creamed off, and how much that would be if a country really was cashless.

??

What you describe is exactly what happens with card payments. It's called card interchange.

 

[emanymton]

What you describe is exactly what happens with card payments. It's called card interchange.

But it isn't at all as that money stays within the system it doesn't disappear.

You may not like where it goes, but it still exists.

 

[rasputin]

But it isn't at all as that money stays within the system it doesn't disappear.

You may not like where it goes, but it still exists.

I agree with you, it doesn't disappear. The point I was trying to make is that, despite having had interchange in place for decades, the money supply is intact and functioning perfectly well.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

i can't see any reason that paying by cheque would be / have been illegal. broadly speaking, it's up to the organisation / person receiving the payment whether they will accept a certain form of payment, but if they were happy with it, can't see why not.

one job i had (very small firm, 1989-ish) used to pay wages by cheque, which was a bit of a pain in the tail.

I used to get paid by cheque a lot in the late 80s early 90s, you went to the local branch of the paying bank and cashed it in (or down the pub...)

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I used to get paid by cheque a lot in the late 80s early 90s, you went to the local branch of the paying bank and cashed it in (or down the pub...)

I can't remember what I did now - would have meant going to bank on a saturday morning either way but would probably have paid it in to my bank rather than have employer's bank / anyone else take a percentage for cashing it. not sure if my bank's ATM's allowed cheque deposits then - they may have, so could have got off the train home at lewisham or something to do that.

It was while I was still living with parents, so not as if there were big bills that needed paying straight away.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

I can't remember what I did now - would have meant going to bank on a saturday morning either way but would probably have paid it in to my bank rather than have employer's bank / anyone else take a percentage for cashing it. not sure if my bank's ATM's allowed cheque deposits then - they may have, so could have got off the train home at lewisham or something to do that.

It was while I was still living with parents, so not as if there were big bills that needed paying straight away.

no cuts taken either at bank or pub, just sign the back and get the amount of cash written on the front of the cheque.
e2a: the pub at new covent garden didn't do the cashing in thing, so you sat in there spending money on a tab while waiting for the bank to open on a friday morning after finishing work at 6AM

 

[Riklet]

Worked bars at a local festival all weekend. It was card only. I really don't like this tbh... cash should be accepted everywhere.

Didn't get a single tip all weekend as a result. Fucking contactless.

 

[PR1Berske]

Old, new, my quilt cover.

 

[brogdale]

the 'portrait' looks like it would be from when his mother still had at least 2 decades to go on the notes; odd.

 

[NoXion]

Worked bars at a local festival all weekend. It was card only. I really don't like this tbh... cash should be accepted everywhere.

Didn't get a single tip all weekend as a result. Fucking contactless.

I mean, if it weren't for this post then I wouldn't have thought that there was any expectation to tip bar workers at a festival, cash or no cash. Certainly this is the first time I've heard of that.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I’d love nothing more than physical currency to be phased out. It’s a pointless thing for most people and has no value in future society.

 

[xenon]

I’d love nothing more than physical currency to be phased out. It’s a pointless thing for most people and has no value in future society.

3/10

What about those folk who find managing budgets easier with cash? As mentioned <------

Still perfectly happy for cash to be around and be an option. Even if I personally rarely use it and won't use businesses that are cash only.

The Cash Is King fenatics are a bit daft though.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Worked bars at a local festival all weekend. It was card only. I really don't like this tbh... cash should be accepted everywhere.

Didn't get a single tip all weekend as a result. Fucking contactless.

Don't the card readers force the person to choose not give you a tip before they can pay? I've seen that in bars in Manchester.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

the 'portrait' looks like it would be from when his mother still had at least 2 decades to go on the notes; odd.

seems to be traditional - the various generations of coins / notes with QE2 on generally had her looking a lot younger

 

[xenon]

Don't the card readers force the person to choose not give you a tip before they can pay? I've seen that in bars in Manchester.

Can't see that catching on in most pubs.

As an aside, a local pub I use was in the Daily Mail of all places recently. They charge more if you pay at the bar, cash or card, rather than use the shit website via the QR code... I always pay at the bar as the website is basically inaccessible. It's still cheaper than the other pubs locally (apart from Spoons.)

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Can't see that catching on in most pubs.

As an aside, a local pub I use was in the Daily Mail of all places recently. They charge more if you pay at the bar, cash or card, rather than use the shit website via the QR code... I always pay at the bar as the website is basically inaccessible. It's still cheaper than the other pubs locally (apart from Spoons.)

I really hope your right

 

[Silas Loom]

seems to be traditional - the various generations of coins / notes with QE2 on generally had her looking a lot younger

That doesn’t even look like Chas when he was younger, though. It’s just a generic 50-something bloke. Maybe with a look of George W Bush.

 

[PR1Berske]

That doesn’t even look like Chas when he was younger, though. It’s just a generic 50-something bloke. Maybe with a look of George W Bush.

The "Nehru jacket" is an odd touch, too.

 

[Silas Loom]

The "Nehru jacket" is an odd touch, too.

Yes. It’s a quilted Nehru jacket, as well, such as I have never seen.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

3/10

What about those folk who find managing budgets easier with cash? As mentioned <------

Still perfectly happy for cash to be around and be an option. Even if I personally rarely use it and won't use businesses that are cash only.

The Cash Is King fenatics are a bit daft though.

AI will take care of that, cash has no future and thank fuck for that!

 

[PR1Berske]

AI will take care of that, cash has no future and thank fuck for that!

AI is the NFT of technology. It will soon collapse.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

AI is the NFT of technology. It will soon collapse.

No but the bubble may burst. And hopefully we'll start calling it something other than AI which it clearly isn't.

 

[NoXion]

No but the bubble may burst. And hopefully we'll start calling it something other than AI which it clearly isn't.

It's not artificial general intelligence, and as far as I know nobody but the hypiest of hypesters says otherwise, but I think arguing that LLMs are not AI at all is a mistake. Dr Hubert Dreyfus once said that no computer program could defeat even a 10-year-old child at chess. Then he got defeated by Mac Hack VI. Since the 80s human Grand Masters have been getting their arses handed to them by chess computers, and they didn't even need to use machine learning or generative algorithms to do that.

If we continue saying "oh it's not AI", even as they keep gaining capabilities and specialities they never had before, then surely that's just goalpost-shifting?

 

[tim]

Correct, because £1 coins didn't exist when coin denomination limits were defined in law in 1971.

Sovereigns existed in 1971 and they have a face value of £1

 

[UnderOpenSky]

It's not artificial general intelligence, and as far as I know nobody but the hypiest of hypesters says otherwise, but I think arguing that LLMs are not AI at all is a mistake. Dr Hubert Dreyfus once said that no computer program could defeat even a 10-year-old child at chess. Then he got defeated by Mac Hack VI. Since the 80s human Grand Masters have been getting their arses handed to them by chess computers, and they didn't even need to use machine learning or generative algorithms to do that.

If we continue saying "oh it's not AI", even as they keep gaining capabilities and specialities they never had before, then surely that's just goalpost-shifting?

I think it needs some kind of self awareness, even in a limited fashion, to be classed as intelligent. Now how we know or measure that I'm sure will cause much debate, but I'm very such, clever as they are, these LLMs are a long way from that.

 

[NoXion]

I think it needs some kind of self awareness, even in a limited fashion, to be classed as intelligent. Now how we know or measure that I'm sure will cause much debate, but I'm very such, clever as they are, these LLMs are a long way from that.

I think that's a non-starter. We can't even definitively prove that humans are truly self-aware, rather than being entities that merely act like it.

 

[rasputin]

Sovereigns existed in 1971 and they have a face value of £1

1971 Sovereigns were gold coins and are covered by Section 2(1) of the Coinage Act 1971, which says:

Gold coins shall be legal tender for payment of any amount

Fairly obviously, this definition does not apply to current variant of £1 coin in general circulation, which is not gold and was not introduced until 1983.