The debt the British people owe to Gerry Adams...

[LiamO]

why are you refusing to look at the broader historical context whence the PIRA's terror campaign sprang?

Because anything else might require some shades of grey (both thinking and matter) and JoA prefers the 'goodies' in the white hats and the 'baddies' in the black. Nuance confuses him, hence never engaging with the questions in the op on this thread..

 

[8den]

I forgot nothing, you know-nothing amadán.

Except apparently that election. You fucking div.

They did in their arse, just created the space for you to prove once more what is plain from your posts.

How did they in their arse?

You are a semi-literate fantasist.

Back to spelling and grammar again LiamO?

Oh dear, ever decreasing circles....

 

[8den]

NORAD = US Radar defence grid control centre.

NORAID = Plastic "Irish-Americans" getting a boner over "supporting the struggle".

Thank you....Dearg will get a couple of pages out of that one.

 

[Streathamite]

Because if one looks at that context, jon's argument doesn't have much utility.

absolutely

 

[Streathamite]

Because anything else might require some shades of grey (both thinking and matter) and JoA prefers the 'goodies' in the white hats and the 'baddies' in the black. Nuance confuses him, hence never engaging with the questions in the op on this thread..

also this

 

[Deareg]

Thank you....Dearg will get a couple of pages out of that one.

You haven't showed me yet where I laughed at you for using the term Ulster, lets deal with that one before introducing more bullshit

 

[8den]

You haven't showed me yet where I laughed at you for using the term Ulster, lets deal with that one before introducing more bullshit

You're right it was Pickman and LiamO not yourself. I apologise.

 

[LiamO]

Back to spelling and grammar again LiamO?

Oh dear, ever decreasing circles....

I called you a semi-literate fantasist as - despite parading your 'expertise' on here and despite (or maybe because of) your schooling in the Free State educational system - you are apparently labouring under the illusion that in 1919 Sinn Fein sought and received an electoral mandate for armed insurrection.

Whilst this old fanny comforts many a revisionist buffoon, it is simply not the case. I defy you to show otherwise, fantasist.

You should hang your head in shame if you actually believe this absolute nonsense. Perhaps you could quote me the bits about a guerilla war in SF's election manifesto of that year?

The plain fact is that Dan Breen embarrassed the fuck out of Arthur Griffith and the rest of the Sinn Fein big-nobs by taking unilateral armed action and igniting the War of Independence. Fair play to him.

You are worse than a fool. You are an ignorant fool masquerading as an authority. Dimwit.

 

[LiamO]

... Sinn Fein (it's 1918 version not the cunts we're stuck with now) received a massive democratic mandate for armed revolt against the British state.

While you are at the apologies, are you going to apologise for perpetuating this myth?

 

[LiamO]

While you are at the apologies, are you going to apologise for perpetuating this myth?

I look forward to your new 'mate' Casually Red, choking on his coffee when he reads your silly claim - although he may well be (a little mischievously) inclined to suggest that Adams et al are the political inheritors of Griffith's home-rule position rather than the legacy of Dan Breen.

 

[LiamO]

here's a link to help you in your search.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_F%C3%A9in_Manifesto_1918

Show me where it says explicitly says anything about armed revolt (I have sent a PM to another poster predicting your next wriggle).

 

[Louis MacNeice]

here's a link to help you in your search.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_F%C3%A9in_Manifesto_1918

Show me where it says explicitly says anything about armed revolt (I have sent a PM to another poster predicting your next wriggle).

It'll be point 2 of the manifesto that he's thinking of.

Louis MacNeice

 

[8den]

It'll be point 2 of the manifesto that he's thinking of.

Louis MacNeice

Cheers

 

[LiamO]

don't wriggle. answer the question

Show me where it says explicitly says anything about armed revolt (I have sent a PM to another poster predicting your next wriggle).

 

[8den]

don't wriggle. answer the question

Care to explain what

2. By making use of any and every means available to render impotent the power of England to hold Ireland in subjection by military force or otherwise.

means?

The leader of SF was in Prison at the time, several standing MPS were survivors of the 1916 rising.

You'd have to a unholy ungodly idiotic to have voted for SF and not home rule, and be amazed that you were voting for armed insurrection.

Look LiamO as really pathetic and pedantic as you come off usually this is really fucking pathetic.

 

[8den]

If people wanted a peaceful transition and to be part of the Union, they could have voted for Home Rule, they didn't the voted for SF.

 

[Deareg]

If people wanted a peaceful transition and to be part of the Union, they could have voted for Home Rule, they didn't the voted for SF.

Maybe there were other issues at the time that the people felt sinn fein dealt with and other parties didn't?

 

[8den]

Maybe there were other issues at the time that the people felt sinn fein dealt with and other parties didn't?

SF were anti conscription and pro independence.

By 1918 the armistice had been declared.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_Féin_Manifesto_1918

Can you point out what other issues there were.

 

[Deareg]

SF were anti conscription and pro independence.

By 1918 the armistice had been declared.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_Féin_Manifesto_1918

Can you point out what other issues there were.

I would have thought that the reference to the Easter Proclamation and the parts pertaining to, civil liberties, equal rights, and equal opportunities would have hit a chord with the working class of the time when the conditions that they were living in are taken into account.

 

[8den]

I would have thought that the reference to the Easter Proclamation and the parts pertaining to, civil liberties, equal rights, and equal opportunities would have hit a chord with the working class of the time when the conditions that they were living in are taken into account.

Well if you admit that Sinn Fein were the inherits of the Easter Proclamation, surely you'll have to agree with me that LiamO is incorrect in his claim about 1918 SF not being violent?

 

[Deareg]

Well if you admit that Sinn Fein were the inherits of the Easter Proclamation, surely you'll have to agree with me that LiamO is incorrect in his claim about 1918 SF not being violent?

I am not admitting or claiming that sinn fein were the inheritors of anything, you directed me to a wikipage and I read it, those were just my thoughts on what I read and what I think that you are claiming.

 

[8den]

I am not admitting or claiming that sinn fein were the inheritors of anything, you directed me to a wikipage and I read it, those were just my thoughts on what I read and what I think that you are claiming.

Theres nothing about

civil liberties, equal rights, and equal opportunities

on that wikipedia page.

 

[Deareg]

Theres nothing about



on that wikipedia page.

You really are a clueless fucking wanker aren't you.

 

[8den]

You really are a fucking wanker aren't you.

And you said;

you directed me to a wikipage and I read it, those were just my thoughts on what I read

So yeah I may be a wanker. But I'm right.

 

[Deareg]

And you said;



So yeah I may be a wanker. But I'm right.

No maybe about it, and you are fucking wrong.

 

[DotCommunist]

I find it fascinating that LiamO wants us "Brits" to separate the peace process from the campaign of terror which necessitated a peace process. That he thinks we should "gracefully" acknowledge Adams' deeply selfless and purely humanitarian efforts to bring an end to the "troubles", divorced from the idea that if we failed to find compromises acceptable to Adams then we could expect the bombing campaign to continue unabated.

Yes, think of all those unarmed people the british state listens to and accommodates. What can people long used to british heel 'expect'? Things went all touch feeling in the 80s but thats a fraction of economically forced withdrawals and deals and freedoms granted that started post ww1.

 

[8den]

No maybe about it, and you are fucking wrong.

Explain how?

 

[Deareg]

Explain how?

From the sinn fein maifesto on the wikepage you posted.

Sinn Féin stands less for a political party than for the Nation; it represents the old tradition of nationhood handed on from dead generations; it stands by the Proclamation of the Provisional Government of Easter, 1916, reasserting the inalienable right of the Irish Nation to sovereign independence, reaffirming the determination of the Irish people to achieve it, and guaranteeing within the independent Nation equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens.

The words I quoted are taken from the Easter proclamation. Not that you should need telling seeing as you are uber Irish and all knowledgeable and me a mere plastic.

 

[8den]

But thats not on the page. Remember you said;

you directed me to a wikipage and I read it, those were just my thoughts on what I read

 

[Deareg]

But thats not on the page. Remember you said;

You really wont admit being wrong will you? it says on the page, that sinn fein stand by the proclamation, the words are from the proclamation, they don't have to be actually on the page, though the words "equal rights and equal opportunities to ALL it's citizens" are on the page.