The debt the British people owe to Gerry Adams...

[LiamO]

Would either of you two squalid little free-state no-nothings care to explain where Wolfe Tone got his 'democratic mandate'? John Mitchell? The Fenians?

and then of course there was the famous 1916 plebiscite that gave 99% support for the easter rising... FACT

and Dan Breen and his mob deffo had a census conducted in Tipperary before they kicked off the War of Independence at Soloheadbeag, didn't they. FACT. hooray for 'democracy'!

 

[Pickman's model]

The argument I was and am making is that the IRA were fighting to create a united Ireland, when, in fact when the people of Ireland voted in the matter for the first time since the foundation of the state, we rejected the clause in our constitution that claimed a right to Ulster as part of our state.

I think that makes my point rather well.

by 'the people of ireland' i take it you in fact mean 'the people of the 26 counties'.

and - as i recall - there were two referenda in the republic that day. can you recall what the other was about?

if the people of the 26 counties rejected ulster, does that mean they no longer wanted donegal, monaghan and cavan?

 

[LiamO]

Nothing to add of any real substance then LiamO?

Why break the posting habit of, a lifetime? Or, er, the last 7 months.

Oh the famous "you are noobie" jibe ... the internationally acclaimed 'argument of substance'... I am wounded

 

[LiamO]

we rejected the clause in our constitution that claimed a right to Ulster as part of our state.

I think that makes my point rather well.

So having fled Belfast, you daddy brought you up to give away your Donegal home? (and Cavan & Monaghan)? You silly old billy.

 

[Pickman's model]

I imagine the uber patriots will have the majority of Irish people down as "misguided" or "distracted"....

at the moment it's just you and 8den in that category

 

[LiamO]

at the moment it's just you and 8den in that category

expect radio silence for a while... they have gone to get more dollies to throw from their prams

 

[8den]

Would either of you two squalid little free-state no-nothings care to explain where Wolfe Tone got his 'democratic mandate'? John Mitchell? The Fenians?

Anyone who died within the last three generations?

and then of course there was the famous 1916 plebiscite that gave 99% support for the easter rising... FACT

Source?

and Dan Breen and his mob deffo had a census conducted in Tipperary before they kicked off the War of Independence at Soloheadbeag, didn't they. FACT. hooray for 'democracy'!

Again 1919. Anything I had a chance to vote on?

 

[8den]

by 'the people of ireland' i take it you in fact mean 'the people of the 26 counties'.

and - as i recall - there were two referenda in the republic that day. can you recall what the other was about?

if the people of the 26 counties rejected ulster, does that mean they no longer wanted donegal, monaghan and cavan?

Pedantry and sarcasm, the last refugee of a bankrupt argument.

 

[8den]

Oh the famous "you are noobie" jibe ... the internationally acclaimed 'argument of substance'... I am wounded

The point about Warrenpoint, Germany and Gibraltar that you ignored, on previous page?

 

[Deareg]

Pedantry and sarcasm, the last refugee of a bankrupt argument.

Oh, the fucking irony!

 

[8den]

Oh, the fucking irony!

And my point is made once again.

 

[Pickman's model]

Pedantry and sarcasm, the last refugee of a bankrupt argument.

it's not pedantry to point out that you forgot about the people in the six counties - or aren't they on the island of ireland? nor is it pedantry to bring up the fact that there are nine counties in ulster.

it seems you can't recall the topic of the other referendum. no surprise there.

accusations of pedantry - the first resort of wankers like you.

 

[Deareg]

And my point is made once again.

You are really on a roll, ain't ya?

 

[Pickman's model]

You are really on a roll, ain't ya?

more like a chute.

 

[8den]

it's not pedantry to point out that you forgot about the people in the six counties - or aren't they on the island of ireland? nor is it pedantry to bring up the fact that there are nine counties in ulster.

I wrote Ulster instead of the more cumbersome "the 6 counties" Fucking deal with it.

it seems you can't recall the topic of the other referendum. no surprise there.

No I can, it's just between LiamO, Dearg and yourself, I'm a bit busy.

We voted for the Belfast Agreement, and We voted to amendment our constitution.

accusations of pedantry - the first resort of wankers like you.

Wow you're just running with this aren't you McFuck.

 

[Pickman's model]

I wrote Ulster instead of the more cumbersome "the 6 counties" Fucking deal with it.

you're not busy, you're fucking stupid: you could have said 'the north' (pretty much as short as ulster and more readily understood) and we wouldn't have had this little misunderstanding

We voted for the Belfast Agreement, and We voted to amendment our constitution.

it's like getting blood out of a stone.

 

[8den]

it's like getting blood out of a stone.

Perhaps if you tried to enunciate your point, and explain whatever obscure point you're trying to make then we'd get somewhere.

 

[8den]

For those of just joining us.

Dearg is laughing because I used the term Ulster instead of the 6 counties.

LiamO is seriously arguing that Wolfe Tone (who died in 1798) gave the IRA a mandate for violence in the 1970s.

And Pickmans is trying to make some point about the vote for the 19th amendment to the Irish constitution.

Well done lads.

 

[Deareg]

Why am I laughing again?

 

[LiamO]

LiamO is seriously arguing that Wolfe Tone (who died in 1798) gave the IRA a mandate for violence in the 1970s.

Nope.

I am merely stating the simple truth that NO Irish rebellion, EVER in history, was EVER undertaken after a popular vote was held on it - therefore, using the terms set out by you and cry-baby, no irish rebellion EVER had what you two twits would refer to as a 'demcratic mandate'.

The state you live in was born out of armed revolt, not 'elections'. That you appear to be unaware of this is, naturally, no surprise.

 

[Pickman's model]

Perhaps if you tried to enunciate your point, and explain whatever obscure point you're trying to make then we'd get somewhere.

your point seems to be that in 1997 the irish people (or that section resident in the 26 counties) voted to abandon articles 2 & 3 of the constitution, thereby showing that ever since at least 1969 they had on the while opposed what was happening in the north. which is strange as you make that point in a reply to a post of mine saying that the ira must have had a pool of genuine, and not coerced, support because otherwise it would not have been able to prosecute such a long campaign. you seem to seek to minimise the support the ira has received.

 

[Garek]

your point seems to be that in 1997 the irish people (or that section resident in the 26 counties) voted to abandon articles 2 & 3 of the constitution, thereby showing that ever since at least 1969 they had on the while opposed what was happening in the north. which is strange as you make that point in a reply to a post of mine saying that the ira must have had a pool of genuine, and not coerced, support because otherwise it would not have been able to prosecute such a long campaign. you seem to seek to minimise the support the ira has received.

Yes, all those prisoners who escaped were gleefully handed back to their gaolers when they sought refuge in their home areas Not a single one was helped across the border by anyone

 

[8den]

Nope.

I am merely stating the simple truth that NO Irish rebellion, EVER in history, was EVER undertaken after a popular vote was held on it - therefore, using the terms set out by you and cry-baby, no irish rebellion EVER had what you two twits would refer to as a 'demcratic mandate'.

The state you live in was born out of armed revolt, not 'elections'. That you appear to be unaware of this is, naturally, no surprise.

Actually you fucking dimwit, you forgot the 1918 election. The Home Rule party was nearly wiped out, and Sinn Fein (it's 1918 version not the cunts we're stuck with now) received a massive democratic mandate for armed revolt against the British state.

Did you miss that?

 

[8den]

your point seems to be that in 1997 the irish people (or that section resident in the 26 counties) voted to abandon articles 2 & 3 of the constitution, thereby showing that ever since at least 1969 they had on the while opposed what was happening in the north. which is strange as you make that point in a reply to a post of mine saying that the ira must have had a pool of genuine, and not coerced, support because otherwise it would not have been able to prosecute such a long campaign. you seem to seek to minimise the support the ira has received.

That is to say you presume they opposed.

This was the first time the had a chance to vote on the matter.

I don't know what you mean by "opposed" by the way. Lots of people objected to the British Army's and British State's actions in North. It's just we found it equally offensive that the IRA were violently attempting to unite our nation without asking us if we wanted to in the 1st place.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah, like that would work in the north.

Besides, we did that for the south and now we're having to help bail them out of the mess they've got themselves into.

Help?
We're loaning them £7 billion at twice the rate of interest it costs us to borrow the money. That's profiteering, not "help".

 

[LiamO]

Actually you fucking dimwit, you forgot the 1918 election. The Home Rule party was nearly wiped out, and Sinn Fein (it's 1918 version not the cunts we're stuck with now) received a massive democratic mandate for armed revolt against the British state.

Did you miss that?

I forgot nothing, you know-nothing amadán.


They did in their arse. I just created the space for you to prove once more what is plain from your posts - that you are a semi-literate fantasist - and you walked straight in and bit like the fuckin halfwit you are..

 

[ViolentPanda]

Its a bit difficult to sympathise with a struggle which is targeting civilians in your own pubs and cities.

Emotionally and morally I agree, but tactically, what the PIRA did was text-book guerrilla warfare, right down to hitting "soft targets", a move which generates disgust in the general public. Thing is, that disgust can work two ways: It can mean an intensification of repression by the dominant side, but it can also mean a public mood that wants any ongoing struggle settled.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes a unelected movement with no real support outside of NORAD a small minority of southerns, some dodgy middle eastern dictators, carrying out a sustained campaign of violence and torture, in my name is not something I'm wild about either

NORAD = US Radar defence grid control centre.

NORAID = Plastic "Irish-Americans" getting a boner over "supporting the struggle".

 

[Streathamite]

I find it fascinating that LiamO wants us "Brits" to separate the peace process from the campaign of terror which necessitated a peace process. That he thinks we should "gracefully" acknowledge Adams' deeply selfless and purely humanitarian efforts to bring an end to the "troubles", divorced from the idea that if we failed to find compromises acceptable to Adams then we could expect the bombing campaign to continue unabated.

why are you refusing to look at the broader historical context whence the PIRA's terror campaign sprang?

 

[ViolentPanda]

why are you refusing to look at the broader historical context whence the PIRA's terror campaign sprang?

Because if one looks at that context, jon's argument doesn't have much utility.