The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[kabbes]

If EU minimum standards rise, then UK standards will rise (to avoid consequences). However, it won't work the other way. UK standards can go as high as they like, but EU countries won't have to follow suit. It has to be that way, because otherwise the EU would be giving the UK a power to single-handedly determine EU policy that the EU's own member states don't have.

So, it's a one-way ratchet. Like a one-way street, but confusing.

Gotta say, I think it’s an unfair clause if it doesn’t apply both ways. The reason it’s unpalatable to the EU to give the UK power to set standards is exactly the same reason why is also unpalatable in reverse. Either you allow both parties to have control over the other equally or you allow neither to have it.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Interesting to look back 11 months:

The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

Now the the UK has 'left' the supra-state, perhaps it's time to move onto a new thread considering the negotiations to establish a new trading relationship with the 27? Of course, the opening gambits will be negotiating positions, but did we expect the right party of capital to come out so...

www.urban75.net

Is it? Effectively nothing has happened in that time.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Gotta say, I think it’s an unfair clause if it doesn’t apply both ways. The reason it’s unpalatable to the EU to give the UK power to set standards is exactly the same reason why is also unpalatable in reverse. Either you allow both parties to have control over the other equally or you allow neither to have it.

If only we were in the EU to influence and increase both ways.

 

[kabbes]

If only we were in the EU to influence and increase both ways.

Well we’re not.

I wouldn’t want us to sign that kind of one-way arrangement with the US, so why should the EU be any different?

 

[Supine]

I don't think there is any talk about giving the UK powers to dictate standards. The options have been UK stays as is or increases in line with eu.

 

[MrSki]

Look at the state of it.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Gotta say, I think it’s an unfair clause if it doesn’t apply both ways. The reason it’s unpalatable to the EU to give the UK power to set standards is exactly the same reason why is also unpalatable in reverse. Either you allow both parties to have control over the other equally or you allow neither to have it.

Bit like the state aid thing, the EU says the U.K. can’t give state aid to companies, but the EU can cos it is not a state, it’s only their member states that can’t.

 

[ska invita]

Look at the state of it.

Remember when Corbyns suit was a subject for all UK journalists to discuss with a straight face?

 

[brogdale]

Is it? Effectively nothing has happened in that time.

Yeas, kind of what I was getting at...and who was basically telling us what would happen.

 

[Pickman's model]

Look at the state of it.

A poundland auric goldfinger
boris shithands

 

[TopCat]

View attachment 242510

That's told 'em.

 

[MrSki]

Do you think he shat himself & had to borrow a suit?

 

[TopCat]

Don't forget all those direct France-Ireland ferries that will giving us two fingers as they sail merrily past the Cornish coast

Why do we want them driving across the UK?

 

[two sheds]

Johnson and "high-level talks" have never sat easily in the same sentence

 

[Pickman's model]

Johnson and "high-level talks" have never sat easily in the same sentence

Everything would fly over his head

 

[brogdale]

Why do we want them driving across the UK?

An interesting question!
Let's hope, for the sake of our food supplies that it's not one that the French ask of UK hauliers.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

You got to hand it to Barnier, he really has stamina! He's like the last man standing.

 

[brogdale]

You got to hand it to Barnier, he really has stamina! He's like the last man standing.

Yeah, and some reserves of courage to negotiate with an opponent that held all the cards.

 

[two sheds]

Not in that suit though

 

[kabbes]

If there ends up being no deal, that is a dismal failure for Barnier and the EU as well as for Johnson and the U.K.

 

[teuchter]

Gotta say, I think it’s an unfair clause if it doesn’t apply both ways. The reason it’s unpalatable to the EU to give the UK power to set standards is exactly the same reason why is also unpalatable in reverse. Either you allow both parties to have control over the other equally or you allow neither to have it.

Is there precedent for such an agreement anywhere - where one party is much larger than the other?

 

[Pickman's model]

An interesting question!
Let's hope, for the sake of our food supplies that it's not one that the French ask of UK hauliers.

But Dominic Raab pointed out on the toady programme that the eu only supplies 30% of our food so presumably we can do without

 

[brogdale]

But Dominic Raab pointed out on the toady programme that the eu only supplies 30% of our food so presumably we can do without

Raab clearly doesn't shop in Lidl.

 

[MickiQ]

Do you think he shat himself & had to borrow a suit?

The man is a positive fashion icon, Frost's suit isn't much better it looks like he bought it off the peg and they didn't quite have his size.

 

[DownwardDog]

If there ends up being no deal, that is a dismal failure for Barnier and the EU as well as for Johnson and the U.K.

MB can only negotiate up to the limits mandate he's given by the EU27. Ultimately the want a deal but won't compromise the single market to get it. Particularly as the EU think they'll get a better deal from the UK next year after they've had a no deal beasting.

 

[2hats]

Everything would fly over his head

Doesn't look like there will be much flying next month.

Holidaymakers from Great Britain barred from EU after 1 January under Covid rules

European commission indicates Britons will face ban on non-essential travel at end of Brexit transition

www.theguardian.com

 

[kabbes]

MB can only negotiate up to the limits mandate he's given by the EU27. Ultimately the want a deal but won't compromise the single market to get it. Particularly as the EU think they'll get a better deal from the UK next year after they've had a no deal beasting.

The fact that he can only negotiate up to the limits set for him is why no deal is a failure of the EU. But even within those limits, an different negotiator given a different approach for the last four years may well have been able to achieve something.

It takes two sides to negotiate. Failure to get a deal is not just the fault of one side.

 

[kabbes]

Is there precedent for such an agreement anywhere - where one party is much larger than the other?

What precedents are there for a country just accepting the all rules today and forever of a club without being a member of that club? Is that something that eg Norway has signed up to? It seems like a really bad idea.

 

[brogdale]

Doesn't look like there will be much flying next month.

Holidaymakers from Great Britain barred from EU after 1 January under Covid rules

European commission indicates Britons will face ban on non-essential travel at end of Brexit transition

www.theguardian.com

Tarquin and Jocasta will be hoping for snow in the Cairngorms, then?

 

[MickiQ]

Gotta say, I think it’s an unfair clause if it doesn’t apply both ways. The reason it’s unpalatable to the EU to give the UK power to set standards is exactly the same reason why is also unpalatable in reverse. Either you allow both parties to have control over the other equally or you allow neither to have it.

You're absolutely right it is unfair but we're now up against the harsh reality of we need a deal with them way more than they need one with us. The US is going to screw us over as well for exactly the same reason.
The fact that our politicians are a bunch of self-serving cunts shouldn't obscure the fact that other countries politicians are as well.