The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[TopCat]

You'd think so. I still back a deal with Johnson backing down on almost everything and trying to make out it is a triumph of diplomacy. It's not a dead cert, but abandoning Cummings' 'let's just break the law' approach was a signal that this is coming.

You want that but that doesn't make it likely.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You want that but that doesn't make it likely.

I think it is likely because the alternative is chaos - the kind of chaos that hurts the poorest the hardest.

I do want it, yes. What's not to want about the UK agreeing to ratchet up standards as the EU does? I want Johnson to be forced to give in over every single thing.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think it is likely because the alternative is chaos - the kind of chaos that hurts the poorest the hardest.

I do want it, yes. What's not to want about the UK agreeing to ratchet up standards as the EU does? I want Johnson to be forced to give in over every single thing.

er it's not about ratcheting up standards, it's about changing standards. standards like shares can go up and down. there is nothing ratchet about it

 

[andysays]

They have to get that stuff into ireland in the first place. Unless you are talking about smuggling poteen. In which case bring it in.

If Sugar Kane 's earlier post about how much of various RoI produce gets exported to the UK is correct, there could be a lucrative opportunity for some mushroom smuggling...

 

[Raheem]

You'd think so. I still back a deal with Johnson backing down on almost everything and trying to make out it is a triumph of diplomacy. It's not a dead cert, but abandoning Cummings' 'let's just break the law' approach was a signal that this is coming.

I agree that we are on course for a deal, but backing down on NI doesn't tell us much either way. The reality of having no deal and then lumping a likely and unwinnable trade war with the EU on top of that would be catastrophe squared. Either way, they had to do it.

 

[editor]

 

[Flavour]

They have to get that stuff into ireland in the first place. Unless you are talking about smuggling poteen. In which case bring it in.

Don't forget all those direct France-Ireland ferries that will giving us two fingers as they sail merrily past the Cornish coast

 

[editor]

Wales gets fucked again. Can someone who voted for this omnishambles remind me what the supposed benefits of Brexit were?

Ineos has confirmed its new Grenadier cars will be manufactured in France, not Wales as had been hoped.
The chemical conglomerate, controlled by prominent Brexit supporter Sir Jim Ratcliffe, said it will build the vehicles at the former Mercedes-Benz factory in Hambach, Moselle, following a deal with the German carmaker.

Production of a new vehicle, inspired by the Land Rover Defender, was due to begin in Bridgend next year, creating around 500 jobs once production reached full capacity.
The plant would have been built next to the Ford engine plant at Bridgend, which recently closed with the loss of 1,700 jobs.

Ineos said on Tuesday the French factory was "well located for access to markets, suppliers and automotive talent".

Brexit-backing Ineos boss confirms new cars will be built in France instead of Wales

Sir Jim Ratcliffe says French factory "well located for access to markets, suppliers and automotive talent"

www.independent.co.uk

 

[andysays]

Looks like we'll soon be calling it Briexit

Tesco: Brexit 'could see people choose cheddar over brie'

Brits could turn back to cheddar if the price of French cheese shoots up after a no-deal Brexit. Tesco's chair John Allan told the BBC that import taxes could push up the price of brie by as much as 40%. He said it might "change the mix of what people eat", leading to people buying more British cheddar.

 

[editor]

 

[Roadkill]

er it's not about ratcheting up standards, it's about changing standards. standards like shares can go up and down. there is nothing ratchet about it

That is true, but with the Tory right in the driving seat and various shady neoliberal think-tanks in advisory positions it's pretty hard to see the UK diverging from European standards in any way other than downwards in the foreseeable future.

Fundamentally the choice Johnson has tonight is to blow up the country with 'no deal' or blow up the Tory party by caving in on pretty much everything, and the messages are mixed as to which way he might jump. Today's bollocks in Parliament about the EU's conditions being unacceptable points one way, whereas dropping bits of the Internal Market Bill point the other.

That choice is basically the same as the government's had since May defined Brexit as what was then referred to as 'hard Brexit' back in 2016, and effectively took EEA membership off the table. They've basically been kicking the can down the road ever since then, and now they've come to the end of the road. The news for the next few days is going to be interesting...

 

[brogdale]

That is true, but with the Tory right in the driving seat and various shady neoliberal think-tanks in advisory positions it's pretty hard to see the UK diverging from European standards in any way other than downwards in the foreseeable future.

Fundamentally the choice Johnson has tonight is to blow up the country with 'no deal' or blow up the Tory party by caving in on pretty much everything, and the messages are mixed as to which way he might jump. Today's bollocks in Parliament about the EU's conditions being unacceptable points one way, whereas dropping bits of the Internal Market Bill point the other.

That choice is basically the same as the government's had since May defined Brexit as what was then referred to as 'hard Brexit' back in 2016, and effectively took EEA membership off the table. They've basically been kicking the can down the road ever since then, and now they've come to the end of the road. The news for the next few days is going to be interesting...

I may be wrong, and he can speak for himself, but I'm thinking that Pickman's model was reminding us that the standards demanded by a neoliberal supra state may not always go in the workers' interests?

 

[Roadkill]

I may be wrong, and he can speak for himself, but I'm thinking that Pickman's model was reminding us that the standards demanded by a neoliberal supra state may not always go in the workers' interests?

Oh yes, and I'm certainly not trying to suggest that the EU works in workers' interests for much of the time - just that a Tory-led Britain with nothing to restrain it is likely to be worse!

 

[brogdale]

Oh yes, and I'm certainly not trying to suggest that the EU works in workers' interests for much of the time - just that a Tory-led Britain with nothing to restrain it is likely to be worse!

Or, indeed, much the same?
The reason I couldn't bring myself to participate in the tory referendum.

 

[Pickman's model]

I may be wrong, and he can speak for himself, but I'm thinking that Pickman's model was reminding us that the standards demanded by a neoliberal supra state may not always go in the workers' interests?

just so. the eu standards today may be superior to the eu standards in 2025. the notion the eu is only ever raising standards explicit in lbj's post is an error

 

[Artaxerxes]

Wales gets fucked again. Can someone who voted for this omnishambles remind me what the supposed benefits of Brexit were?

Brexit-backing Ineos boss confirms new cars will be built in France instead of Wales

Sir Jim Ratcliffe says French factory "well located for access to markets, suppliers and automotive talent"

www.independent.co.uk

Well presumably the Welsh, who voted for Brexit, can.

 

[Roadkill]

Or, indeed, much the same?
The reason I couldn't bring myself to participate in the tory referendum.

I think it'll very likely be worse. After all, the government is running scared of / being steered by the ERG lot, who think the EU's - minimal - rules on employment protection are some sort of communist plot. Tbh the prospect of that is why I did vote in the referendum.

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh yes, and I'm certainly not trying to suggest that the EU works in workers' interests for much of the time - just that a Tory-led Britain with nothing to restrain it is likely to be worse!

oh left to his own devices i am sure johnson would have children back working in mines and factories up and down the land

 

[Artaxerxes]

oh left to his own devices i am sure johnson would have children back working in mines and factories up and down the land

Sending a few slaves out to the latifundia.

 

[Roadkill]

oh left to his own devices i am sure johnson would have children back working in mines and factories up and down the land

It'll be just like the good old days, don'tcha know.

 

[two sheds]

give them early work experience

 

[editor]

Well presumably the Welsh, who voted for Brexit, can.

Apparently 'The Welsh' didn't vote in favour of Brexit actually. But then everyone who voted had been fed hot piles of stinking bullshit and lies from the start.

English people living in Wales tilted it towards Brexit, research finds

Areas of Wales with big English communities had larger leave vote in 2016, according to study

www.theguardian.com

 

[andysays]

Apparently 'The Welsh' didn't vote in favour of Brexit actually. But then everyone who voted had been fed hot piles of stinking bullshit and lies from the start.

English people living in Wales tilted it towards Brexit, research finds

Areas of Wales with big English communities had larger leave vote in 2016, according to study

www.theguardian.com

#notproperwelsh

 

[Artaxerxes]

#notproperwelsh

#sendthemmunsbackboyo

 

[Ax^]

is it time for the failboat memes yet

 

[Roadkill]

is it time for the failboat memes yet

Not quite. They'll barely have started the first course.

Hopefully the main will be fish and Johnson will get a bone in his throat.

 

[Roadkill]

Not quite. They'll barely have started the first course.

Hopefully the main will be fish and Johnson will get a bone in his throat.

Scallops, apparently, and turbot. How topical. Sadly Johnson hasn't choked yet.

 

[teqniq]

Oh dear.

 

[brogdale]

Emblematic?

 

[brogdale]

and "Discussions have not gone well."