The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion
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Anju
Well-Known Member
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Johnson pleads with business leaders: give me a reason for Brexit – Yorkshire Bylines
The prime minister, unable to think of any red tape to cut, asks business leaders for any unnecessary EU regulations.
yorkshirebylines.co.uk
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Johnson pleads with business leaders: give me a reason for Brexit – Yorkshire Bylines
The prime minister, unable to think of any red tape to cut, asks business leaders for any unnecessary EU regulations.
Boris Johnson said:
It was quite unpopular in some trades back in the heady days when overtime was routinely paid at time and a half and double pay for weekends. When it was being introduced I worked in a printers that had a lot of seasonal work where people worked crazy hours for a few weeks but earnt a good whack for it, and everyone supported the opt out.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Think the bounce from people splurging will mask a lot of economic pain this year, next year we'll start to see more of a concrete fallout
The fishing industry is making fish extinct anyway and it's cruel. Time to leave the fish alone.
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
Great thread about a wine importer about how the new customs arrangements are fucking over his business. Scary thing is that this is a guy who seems to have done the utmost to educate himelf about the changes prepare. Another excellent Brexit dividend 
quite a lot of the brexiteers who used to post here have gone very quiet.
I’d have thought that seeing as it’s going so well, they wouldn’t shut up. Maybe they are celebrating somewhere else.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Great thread about a wine importer about how the new customs arrangements are fucking over his business. Scary thing is that this is a guy who seems to have done the utmost to educate himelf about the changes prepare. Another excellent Brexit dividend
So he predicts plonk going up by a quid and up by two quid for decent wine.
He also predicts he is leaving the UK with his family because of brexit. Well the latter might be true. Certainly wine at the moment is the same price as before Christmas.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
The most common defence always seems to be "well they deserve it I don't like X,y, z because fuck the bourgeoisie"
mauvais
on reddit or something
The two main 'sensible' positions on here were:
(a) a spat between two forces of capital is not my fight, and/or
(b) the EU restricts the ability of a future left government to adopt necessary positions and Brexit is a good thing on this basis
The proponents of both of these seem to have shut up for the time being.
I've some sympathy for (a) because being drawn into someone else's X vs Y conflict forces you to adopt an inherently compromising position on those terms, but I think it's extremely short sighted and we are going to have a lot of what were avoidable or deferrable consequences that absolutely are your fight and you are ill equipped to fight it. Still, it is some defence to say it wasn't your problem and you didn't cause it.
I find (b) to be much worse, deluded and arrogant even, the idea that it paves the way for some forthcoming victory years from now rather than merely allowing us to be absolutely fucked today. This is inevitably coupled to the assertion that nothing good will come of miserable conditions in the interim which begs the question of why the fuck did you support it now?
(a) a spat between two forces of capital is not my fight, and/or
(b) the EU restricts the ability of a future left government to adopt necessary positions and Brexit is a good thing on this basis
The proponents of both of these seem to have shut up for the time being.
I've some sympathy for (a) because being drawn into someone else's X vs Y conflict forces you to adopt an inherently compromising position on those terms, but I think it's extremely short sighted and we are going to have a lot of what were avoidable or deferrable consequences that absolutely are your fight and you are ill equipped to fight it. Still, it is some defence to say it wasn't your problem and you didn't cause it.
I find (b) to be much worse, deluded and arrogant even, the idea that it paves the way for some forthcoming victory years from now rather than merely allowing us to be absolutely fucked today. This is inevitably coupled to the assertion that nothing good will come of miserable conditions in the interim which begs the question of why the fuck did you support it now?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I'm surprised by the absence of any other positions and curious who determined the sense or otherwise of these two
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I always felt the Lexit argument boiled down to, "it's shit now and it'll get worse after we leave the EU but in the long term it'll be better!"
Now I think.of it, that was the RW brexit argument too.
In the meantime I just hope the kids get to keep eating. It's not looking massively hopeful on that front if the food parcels for schools are anything to judge by.
Now I think.of it, that was the RW brexit argument too.
In the meantime I just hope the kids get to keep eating. It's not looking massively hopeful on that front if the food parcels for schools are anything to judge by.
mauvais
on reddit or something
The RW argument promised something much more short-to-medium term I think - such is the necessary nature of populism I suppose. It sometimes acknowledged there would be some disruption and consequences but not really anything long term. The lack of planning, the years it takes to make trade deals etc were mostly dismissed.
I think if you asked Leave supporters whether they expected and were willing to accept significant interim consequences, making it worse to make it better, the majority would say that's not what they were sold.
I think if you asked Leave supporters whether they expected and were willing to accept significant interim consequences, making it worse to make it better, the majority would say that's not what they were sold.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Also worth mentioning the total absence of detail, in terms of how we actually get from here to there. From any quarter. Just "well it has to be better!" like a credo.
How? How will it get better? What does 'better' look like and how do we get there on a practical level?
I missed this part of the debate. I'm not sure it actually happened anywhere. The whole thing was emotional and now all we're left with is the residual anger that got us here. No actual plan for how to get there.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I don't share that perception of posting here in the main Brexit based threads; I'd say, if anything, the reality of brexit has seen a resurgence of the broadly (a) type posters.
But hey, maybe if you started a Successes of Brexit type thread you might get to hear more from those on the winning side?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I can't wait to see what the prize is.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
It's already here.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
There's one around somewhere, think it got half a dozen posts
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Perhaps it's time has come?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
They will be exploring new recipes for long pig by march
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
In a sovereignty coulis. A nice red one, for lolz
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
The underlined bit is important and formed the basis for a lot of Leave votes. The rest of your post is how Remain were thinking.
I haven’t seen any polls (there are some I’m sure) but there’s been a fair bit of reporting of staunch Leavers who are now happy we’ve left and don’t care about the downsides. That may of course change.
I'm not brexit, lexit or remain as I saw/see it as someone else's argument, not aimed at people like me. BUT even I can see that it is ridiculous to judge how good or bad an idea this withdrawal was FIFTEEN DAYS after it happened though. It will take years!!
Maybe 10 years will begin to show more realistic results of how things pan out. There will probably be way worse consequences in areas that haven't even been considered here yet.
Whereas lots of the issues people are bringing up right now will turn out to be glitches that were easy to fix really quickly. So in a way making such a big deal of them now is helping the government, as they can then fix them and say "look we fixed what you complained about, if you complain about something else you are just complaining for the sake of it".
Maybe 10 years will begin to show more realistic results of how things pan out. There will probably be way worse consequences in areas that haven't even been considered here yet.
Whereas lots of the issues people are bringing up right now will turn out to be glitches that were easy to fix really quickly. So in a way making such a big deal of them now is helping the government, as they can then fix them and say "look we fixed what you complained about, if you complain about something else you are just complaining for the sake of it".
Yossarian
⏭️
Apart from the zealots who thought leaving the EU was an end in itself and never mind the consequences, I thought the RW argument boiled down to a nationalistic belief that the British are inherently better at making and doing things than people in other countries, and Britain's former dominance in manufacturing and world trade could be restored if barriers that supposedly caused unfair treatment were removed.
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