The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[steeplejack]

Squealing middle-class liberals wonder where all the decent Tory MPs have gone...you know, the ones that will put a stop to 'all this madness'

 

[Pickman's model]

Squealing middle-class liberals wonder where all the decent Tory MPs have gone...you know, the ones that will put a stop to 'all this madness'

The decent Tories are dead and gone
They're with Ken clarke, in the grave

 

[Marty1]

Do you think Disgraced Prime Minister Johnson is adding cunts like to distract from his own failings? Or is he setting them up just to take the blame for his despicable leadership and failed policies?

Maybe he likes budgie smugglers?

 

[Streathamite]

How many of the current cabinet went to Eton?

tbf, all but a handful of them attended at least one private school.
It would be fairer to call it the privilegeocracy, if that weren't such a mouthful

 

[Streathamite]

There is a lot of talk about customs declarations, checks away from borders, electronic stuff and more.
But in sweaty reality what is supposed to happen when there are seemingly two different systems either side of a border (300+ miles, 200+ crossing points) and people and vehicles traverse back and forth with narry an acknowledgement of a border?
If there is no paperwork to cross reference against anything, if no cameras or what not are there, or if they are they draw a blank, if a person or people move about without carrying ID, and so on...does it all get ignored, the turn a blind eye option or more appropriately optics?
Unless there is the same stuff either side of a border, then because of differences some kind of interception or challenge takes place by those for whom it matters, ergo a hard border. Managed and operated somehow.
Need I add that such sweaty, organic, practical realities on the Irish border still comes up against the GFA and the examples from history.
Seeing as how there is money to be made from conflict, even death, could it be the intention of those connected to the Etonocracy to create conflict and death for profit?
Those bullets won't fire themselves after all!

In truth, they know they have to put a hard border in the Irish Sea. To put one betweeen NI and tne Republic breaks the WA and the GFA, and makes deals with both the EU and the USA virtually impossible

 

[Pickman's model]

tbf, all but a handful of them attended at least one private school.
It would be fairer to call it the privilegeocracy, if that weren't such a mouthful

It doesn't really illuminate. They are the government of all the talentless

 

[Streathamite]

There is a lot of talk about customs declarations, checks away from borders, electronic stuff and more.
But in sweaty reality what is supposed to happen when there are seemingly two different systems either side of a border (300+ miles, 200+ crossing points) and people and vehicles traverse back and forth with narry an acknowledgement of a border?
If there is no paperwork to cross reference against anything, if no cameras or what not are there, or if they are they draw a blank, if a person or people move about without carrying ID, and so on...does it all get ignored, the turn a blind eye option or more appropriately optics?
Unless there is the same stuff either side of a border, then because of differences some kind of interception or challenge takes place by those for whom it matters, ergo a hard border. Managed and operated somehow.
Need I add that such sweaty, organic, practical realities on the Irish border still comes up against the GFA and the examples from history.
Seeing as how there is money to be made from conflict, even death, could it be the intention of those connected to the Etonocracy to create conflict and death for profit?
Those bullets won't fire themselves after all!

I should add: you have to have a border, with full apparatus and infrastructure for checking everything crossing it, either between North and South, or at the point of the Irish Sea.
Because otherwise you will have created - albeit by default - the biggest smugglers bonanza in history. And there is no way thr EU will tolerate that.

 

[Streathamite]

It doesn't really illuminate. They are the government of all the talentless

they most certainly are. they make Cameron's bunch look talented

 

[Pickman's model]

they most certainly are. they make Cameron's bunch look talented

The happiest ghost in Britain is the spectre of Neville Chamberlain, as Johnson's piece of paper has finally outdone the shame of munich

 

[Raheem]

In truth, they know they have to put a hard border in the Irish Sea. To put one betweeen NI and tne Republic breaks the WA and the GFA, and makes deals with both the EU and the USA virtually impossible

Think it would make deals with anywhere virtually impossible, except maybe Russia.

 

[Streathamite]

Think it would make deals with anywhere virtually impossible, except maybe Russia.

yup. having a start point of 'we're totally untrustworthy' is a pretty lousy way of opening negotiations

 

[Raheem]

yup. having a start point of 'we're totally untrustworthy' is a pretty lousy way of opening negotiations

It's not just that. The government seems to acknowledge that its border arrangements would be illegal. In the near term, I think it's unlikely that any country would want a trade deal, because the deal itself would be not be stable and would be vulnerable to legal challenge.

 

[Marty1]

Or the EU could just give us a Canadian style deal?

 

[existentialist]

Or the EU could just give us a Canadian style deal?

Why would they?

 

[Streathamite]

It's not just that. The government seems to acknowledge that its border arrangements would be illegal. In the near term, I think it's unlikely that any country would want a trade deal, because the deal itself would be not be stable and would be vulnerable to legal challenge.

yes, quite right, I overlooked that

 

[Pickman's model]

Why would they?

Pity

 

[Raheem]

Or the EU could just give us a Canadian style deal?

Bit ambitious unless we can get some people less shit at negotiating.

 

[Supine]

Or the EU could just give us a Canadian style deal?

I don't see how a Canada style deal which focuses on things like maple syrup and timber sales is seen as suitable for our complex relationship with the EU.

 

[two sheds]

you're forgetting that we have cheese

 

[Marty1]

Bit ambitious unless we can get some people less shit at negotiating.

I haven’t been keeping up with it all that much but got the impression that we were sticking it to the bullies from Brussels.

UK 'not scared of walking away' from Brexit talks - BBC News

Britain will leave the transition arrangement in December "come what may", says David Frost.

www.google.com

 

[Raheem]

Ooh. Nice alliteration.

 

[existentialist]

I haven’t been keeping up with it all that much but got the impression that we were sticking it to the bullies from Brussels.

UK 'not scared of walking away' from Brexit talks - BBC News

Britain will leave the transition arrangement in December "come what may", says David Frost.

www.google.com

Don't believe all the propaganda

 

[Pickman's model]

Don't believe all the propaganda

It's all he believes

 

[Pickman's model]

Bit ambitious unless we can get some people less shit at negotiating.

Yeh they all work for the EU, we have their rejects working for the government

 

[krtek a houby]

I haven’t been keeping up with it all that much but got the impression that we were sticking it to the bullies from Brussels.

UK 'not scared of walking away' from Brexit talks - BBC News

Britain will leave the transition arrangement in December "come what may", says David Frost.

www.google.com

You going to stick it to the Irish as well, while you're at it? Sneak in that hard border?

 

[MickiQ]

you're forgetting that we have cheese

Not any more we're going to flog it all to the japs

Or the EU could just give us a Canadian style deal?

The problem with that is straightforward, we're not Canada, they're three thousand miles away on the other side of a whopping great ocean whereas we are next doors. The nature of the trade is different as well, a lot of Canada's is raw materials and foodstuffs whereas ours is services and much of our manufacturing is tightly integrated with the EU's. The EU doesn't want the UK to become a source of much cheapness on the doorstep undercutting them. That's why they're insisting on a level(ish) playing field whereas the Etoncracy (I love that word) would be quite happy to turn us all into coolies.
The EU wants to avoid a No Deal Brexit (it will cost them billions) but not at the cost of undermining the free market which is one of their fundamental principles. Whereas we seem to have a Govt that enjoys playing chicken despite the fact they have a Mini and the EU has a 40 ton truck.
The EU is negotiating in what it perceives is its best interest and they appear to be better at it than our Govt is. I still can't get my head around the Japan Deal, You can sell us cars tariff-free if you buy some fucking cheese. My grandson is three and a half and he is better at negotiating than these tossers.

 

[Streathamite]

I haven’t been keeping up with it all that much but got the impression that we were sticking it to the bullies from Brussels.

UK 'not scared of walking away' from Brexit talks - BBC News

Britain will leave the transition arrangement in December "come what may", says David Frost.

www.google.com

ooh..that's a good one...oh save my sides AHAHAHAHA!!
err yeah, like we are in any pozsition whatsoever to do that. Doh!

 

[Pickman's model]

ooh..that's a good one...oh save my sides AHAHAHAHA!!
err yeah, like we are in any pozsition whatsoe ver to do that. Doh!

It's wicked to mock the afflicted

 

[existentialist]

It's wicked to mock the afflicted

But it's FUN, dammit!

 

[two sheds]

Fucking atrociously written Guardian article. Quite entertaining in parts but when it pretends to report what Brandon Lewis (NI secretary) actually said in Parliament it just makes shit up. Fine if they interspersed it with actual quotes but it's useless for actual information. I hate it when they do this - some of their articles are filled with supposedly funny 'ironic' writing that is just a waste of reading time.

Brandon Lewis breaks cardinal law for MPs and tells the half-truth | John Crace

Briefed to bluff, the Northern Ireland secretary failed to defend his boss’s Brexit U-turn

www.theguardian.com

So he began to say any old nonsense that came into his head. Yes, Boris had had a bit of a brain freeze when he had negotiated the withdrawal agreement and it was a bit shit but everyone was entitled to a bit of an off-day. The Brexit deal had never made complete sense so it was only right that the Boris should try to tie up a few loose ends by ignoring something that had been agreed both by the UK and the EU. But people shouldn’t be too quick to pre-judge the situation. Just wait until Wednesday when the government published its new get-out-of-jail internal market bill and see if the EU was still complaining then. Clue: it would be. As would almost everyone else.

...

Eventually Brandon cracked. Asked yet again, this time by Tory Bob Neill, if the government was planning to break international law, Lewis made the schoolboy error of giving an almost honest response. Yes, of course we would be breaking the law, he snapped. But we would only be doing it in a little way and not so much that anyone would notice. It would be no worse than doing a little, gentle recreational shoplifting after school. All shops priced in a bit of pilfering to their balance sheet so there would be no harm done. It wasn’t as if we were planning to nuke Brussels. Though Boris might like to keep that option on the table.